The EU deal

[Whistlin' Dixie]

That they are willing to (and brought here in order to) do that means that those at the bottom of our society have to accept that as well, or be labelled as lazy by the government, the media, and people who should know better on football forums.

What is happening to the working class in this country is an utter disgrace. It is not the fault of migrants, but it is migrants that are being used by the Government to do much of the damage.

This.


A multitude of times, this.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Do you actually know any A8 migrants, as that doesn't sound like any of the ones I know.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Do you actually know any A8 migrants, as that doesn't sound like any of the ones I know.

If that question's directed at me then I'll gladly answer it...


I know a fair few Poles, a Czech, and a Slovenian. All of them decent enough people. All of them in blue-collar jobs (Or were last I heard, in some cases) that could be done by British citizens...And yes - a few of them work in JLR....the type of job that people WILL do.

This isn't the 50's , Bruce. You can't just waltz into a job in the afternoon after leaving one in the morning. As I said, we have our own getting turned down for poundland (Or other job that you no doubt would describe as menial labour) because they're 'overqualified'.

Yet the same companies'll happily let immigrants work there, despite their overqualification....or they'll have the overqualified brit work there - as long as it's for their dole

 

[Jxg]

EU migrants are much more likely to have a degree than the native population. If anything, migrants are often heavily over-qualified for their first job in the UK, but then work their way up. We've had this debate before, and the stats show that they are not only better workers than natives, but cost considerably less in terms of welfare. The notion that if they didn't come then the great British un-washed would rise up and become valued members of the workforce isn't really backed by any evidence.

It isn't opposed by any evidence either and the burden of proof isn't exactly on their side.

Regardless of how many migrants are skilled, there are also unskilled migrants. Unskilled migrants that we absolutely do not need. Unskilled migrants that take a place of a skilled migrant because they're from the EU and thus have priority over someone from a place like Korea.

 

[roydo]

If that question's directed at me then I'll gladly answer it...


I know a fair few Poles, a Czech, and a Slovenian. All of them decent enough people. All of them in blue-collar jobs (Or were last I heard, in some cases) that could be done by British citizens...And yes - a few of them work in JLR....the type of job that people WILL do.

This isn't the 50's , Bruce. You can't just waltz into a job in the afternoon after leaving one in the morning. As I said, we have our own getting turned down for poundland (Or other job that you no doubt would describe as menial labour) because they're 'overqualified'.

Yet the same companies'll happily let immigrants work there, despite their overqualification....or they'll have the overqualified brit work there - as long as it's for their dole

New ish to this.

Are you saying that employers employ immigrants cos they can pay them less? Or that EU immigrants qualify for in work benefits easier than Brit nationals?

Or have I totally missed the point? (Likely)

 

[daylightrobber]

It isn't opposed by any evidence either and the burden of proof isn't exactly on their side.

Regardless of how many migrants are skilled, there are also unskilled migrants. Unskilled migrants that we absolutely do not need. Unskilled migrants that take a place of a skilled migrant because they're from the EU and thus have priority over someone from a place like Korea.

Are you suggesting that we don't need unskilled migrants because we can always get skilled migrants to provide labour for jobs which require no skills?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Are you saying that employers employ immigrants cos they can pay them less?

Yes, essentially

Or that EU immigrants qualify for in work benefits easier than Brit nationals?

No - And let's be clear about this.

All benefits are subject to conditionality. If the labour market conditions are manipulated to such an extent where supply outstrips demand, then imposing more obstacles on the low-paid/ unemployed nationals (as immigration does) to meet the conditions to claim benefits while allowing (And encouraging) imported labour to hold 2,3 - even 4 lower-paid jobs, is completely unfair and tantamount to treachery imo.

 

[SNova]

No one here is going to convince one another of the advantages or disadvantages of immigration. Surely the point here is that we, as a self governing nation should be able to decide our own immigration policy. Which is not possible within the EU.

 

[roydo]

to meet the conditions to claim benefits while allowing (And encouraging) imported labour to hold 2,3 - even 4 lower-paid jobs, is completely unfair and tantamount to treachery imo

But what is stopping a Brit, (for want of a better word) doing that?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

But what is stopping a Brit, (for want of a better word) doing that?

As I've said....This Govt tells us there are 0.5m jobs any given day. (Have you read the reports of how many jobs are duplicated on the Govt's universal jobsmatch website??)

There is already 1.69m unemployed (If you take the lies as fact) according to the Govt.

That'a a people/vacancy ratio of more than 3:1.

Then you have to factor in the self-employed & P/T workers earning less than the equivalent of 30hrs pw @NMW.

That's another good few million at least.

See where this is going?

 

[roydo]

As I've said....This Govt tells us there are 0.5m jobs any given day. (Have you read the reports of how many jobs are duplicated on the Govt's universal jobsmatch website??)

There is already 1.69m unemployed (If you take the lies as fact) according to the Govt.

That'a a people/vacancy ratio of more than 3:1.

Then you have to factor in the self-employed & P/T workers earning less than the equivalent of 30hrs pw @NMW.

That's another good few million at least.

See where this is going?

Yes I do. Just not entirely sure why leaving the EU will address the issue. Would we overnight just kick out anyone we fancied so every Brit could have a job, or 2 or 3, if they wanted?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Yes I do. Just not entirely sure why leaving the EU will address the issue. Would we overnight just kick out anyone we fancied so every Brit could have a job, or 2 or 3, if they wanted?

It's not about kicking them out - I never said that, so please don't imply that I think that's the solution.

The labour market's saturated. Our own nationals can't get work (Whether they want to do the job or not) because of the influx of immigrants who are taking lower-paid jobs and qualifying for the in-work benefits that our own can't qualify for, because they can't get a second job or better paid work.

Oh there's loads of jobs, according to Govt & some people....


http://www.channel4.com/news/universal-jobmatch-site-government-fake-jobs

 

[roydo]

It's not about kicking them out - I never said that, so please don't imply that I think that's the solution.

The labour market's saturated. Our own nationals can't get work (Whether they want to do the job or not) because of the influx of immigrants who are taking lower-paid jobs and qualifying for the in-work benefits that our own can't qualify for, because they can't get a second job or better paid work.

Oh there's loads of jobs, according to Govt & some people....


http://www.channel4.com/news/universal-jobmatch-site-government-fake-jobs

But you implied, I think, that leaving the EU would improve this situation, which I grant, must be bloody annoying for those it impacts on.

So how?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

But you implied, I think, that leaving the EU would improve this situation, which I grant, must be bloody annoying for those it impacts on.

So how?

Come on Roydo....What have people been saying about this issue?

We accept those qualified who we need to do the vacancies we have trouble filling. Employ our own in the rest of the (Mainly blue collar) jobs. It's not that hard, is it?

 

[roydo]

Come on Roydo....What have people been saying about this issue?

We accept those qualified who we need to do the vacancies we have trouble filling. Employ our own in the rest of the (Mainly blue collar) jobs. It's not that hard, is it?

Sure. But how? Without sending immigrants back to the EU.

Not being obtuse, but they are here. Taking the jobs, in your words, ish. So how?