The EU deal

[Deggo]

Well I think anything that effects business's ability or desire to invest, or makes selling products abroad more difficult must eventually effect ordinary workers.

The two biggest sectors at risk is car manufacturing and chemicals. If you look at car manufacturing then you have to consider all the component and supply businesses that feed the manufacturing and assembly plants.

So the answer sadly is yes.

To be honest mate its not been plain sailing for the working man while we're in the EU

Can it get worse? Like I say I doubt it

 

[daylightrobber]

Not wishing to speak for others, but broadly, it is the free movement of labour that seems to create most annoyance.

Which really is directing ire at the wrong thing. Austerity is the big issue. Being saddled with public debt because the banks ran riot. Guaranteed if we weren't being subjected to cut after cut we'd all be getting on a lot better with our neighbours.

 

[hibbo'sclass]

Would love to see the economic forecasts from both sides and the assumptions underpinning them.

I have many questions regarding the EU but it would seem to be an undemocratic, economically flawed base for any kind of Union.

These negotiations must have shown up the true nature of the beast to even the most blinkered Europhile with all nations looking to their own interests.

Free trade area - yes, political,monetary and fiscal Union, please God no.

 

[Deggo]

It means things become more expensive because they have taxes levied on them - which is what the single or free market was all about. So the tomatoes that we buy from say Italy because they are cheap we now grow ourselves (more expensive or else we would have done it before) or import from another country (more expensive or else we would have done it before) or import from Italy (more expensive).

And, as mentioned above, if we want to keep free trade with Europe we sign up to the European Economic Area with all of the obligations that would entail that we have tried to get out of by voting to leave.

Far too simplistic for me

The are pros and cons

 

[atrottel]

Far too simplistic for me

The are pros and cons

It was (deliberately) a simple example, but maybe you would like to explain why it is simplistic?

Added: I would have thought, as someone who has, like me, stood on picket lines, you would have been in favour of the worker and social protections within EU law, as opposed to free market conservatism run by Murdoch and the Koch brothers with a permanent majority (following the boundary tinkering and the likelihood of Scottish independence following a Leave vote).

Peteblue suggests closer ties with the USA - the country which would have us sign up to a trade treaty which would outlaw democratic governments from passing laws which have an adverse effect on multinational (especially US-based) companies. And which doesn't allow any lawmakers to see what it is that is being negotiated between civil servants and corporations.

 

[roydo]

Which really is directing ire at the wrong thing. Austerity is the big issue. Being saddled with public debt because the banks ran riot. Guaranteed if we weren't being subjected to cut after cut we'd all be getting on a lot better with our neighbours.

Not sure the banking blow up was the fault of the EU.

 

[peteblue]

Not sure the banking blow up was the fault of the EU.

He's trying to change the discussion.....

 

[anton66]

Seems like the French, who get one of the biggest slices of the EU money cake don't want to give us anything.

 

[magicjuan]

As with all modern governance there is a not to subtle use of the diocletian tactic, create a problem, gain a reaction, propose a solution, the solution that governance wants itself, that way it creates an uninformed legitimacy to do things no one was expecting.

These 'negotiations' are an example of that process. Everything is theatre and you can guarantee that whatever the outcome it will not be for the benefit of the peoples of Europe, it will provide many future benefits for business and corporations to dictate new legislation to guarantee profits at the expense of freedoms and rights.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

let's do a deal and become part of the USA and be ruled by them,

 

[The Esk]

To be honest mate its not been plain sailing for the working man while we're in the EU

Can it get worse? Like I say I doubt it

I agree it's not plain sailing. I guess the question is how does it get better by leaving Europe? Would the ordinary worker be more or less protected?

What if Britain under a right wing Government de-regulated business and employee rights to try and be more competitive?

 

[edge]

As with all modern governance there is a not to subtle use of the diocletian tactic, create a problem, gain a reaction, propose a solution, the solution that governance wants itself, that way it creates an uninformed legitimacy to do things no one was expecting.

These 'negotiations' are an example of that process. Everything is theatre and you can guarantee that whatever the outcome it will not be for the benefit of the peoples of Europe, it will provide many future benefits for business and corporations to dictate new legislation to guarantee profits at the expense of freedoms and rights.

good post mate, sadly the outcome of this farce

 

[peteblue]

As with all modern governance there is a not to subtle use of the diocletian tactic, create a problem, gain a reaction, propose a solution, the solution that governance wants itself, that way it creates an uninformed legitimacy to do things no one was expecting.

These 'negotiations' are an example of that process. Everything is theatre and you can guarantee that whatever the outcome it will not be for the benefit of the peoples of Europe, it will provide many future benefits for business and corporations to dictate new legislation to guarantee profits at the expense of freedoms and rights.

Or for the benefit of one or two countries.......

 

[daylightrobber]

Not sure the banking blow up was the fault of the EU.

Not saying it was.

But the free movement of people is what has helped many businesses to be as successful as they are across the continent. Yet, as soon as times get hard the focus gets firmly directed on the negative and the fact that EU immigrants are net contributors is firmly overlooked.

 

[peteblue]

Would love to see the economic forecasts from both sides and the assumptions underpinning them.

I have many questions regarding the EU but it would seem to be an undemocratic, economically flawed base for any kind of Union.

These negotiations must have shown up the true nature of the beast to even the most blinkered Europhile with all nations looking to their own interests.

Free trade area - yes, political,monetary and fiscal Union, please God no.

This is what I would like to see as well, an evenly balanced black and white set of pro's and cons, without the PR and spin........we'll never get it though......