The EU deal

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Hahaha......we joined a trading block, the trading block enlarged, it started issuing laws and legal judgements, it introduced a single currency, it appointed a President, it has an EU head for Foreign Affairs, it continues to enlarge, it wishes to have an EU Army......there is no line to draw because it's just a series of little steps until the 'EU Project' delivers a USE. If you cannot see it coming then you never will........

And they've got away with most of that, without us ever really consenting, and I agree that it is a massive problem.

But a couple of those things are misleading. The trading block was always going to grow. The single currency isn't mandatory (thank goodness)...

I think the current EU is crap and I've not been hoodwinked into believing that our glorious Prime Minister has won us a wonderful deal, however some of the arguments for leaving are also based on presumptions crap.
 

Pete, why do you think people are out to screw us over? I haven't met a single European (bureaucrat or otherwise) that even remotely thinks that.

Not to screw us over. It's just that what the Single Currency countries want is not necessarily what we want, but the EU will always support and follow the direction wanted by the SC group. We are seen as being on the outside and as someone who therefore has to be brought into line, step by step.......
 
And they've got away with most of that, without us ever really consenting, and I agree that it is a massive problem.

But a couple of those things are misleading. The trading block was always going to grow. The single currency isn't mandatory (thank goodness)...

I think the current EU is crap and I've not been hoodwinked into believing that our glorious Prime Minister has won us a wonderful deal, however some of the arguments for leaving are also based on presumptions crap.
I agree with you there mate.
 
And they've got away with most of that, without us ever really consenting, and I agree that it is a massive problem.

But a couple of those things are misleading. The trading block was always going to grow. The single currency isn't mandatory (thank goodness)...

I think the current EU is crap and I've not been hoodwinked into believing that our glorious Prime Minister has won us a wonderful deal, however some of the arguments for leaving are also based on presumptions crap.
You working hard today.
 
Hahaha......we joined a trading block, the trading block enlarged, it started issuing laws and legal judgements, it introduced a single currency, it appointed a President, it has an EU head for Foreign Affairs, it continues to enlarge, it wishes to have an EU Army......there is no line to draw because it's just a series of little steps until the 'EU Project' delivers a USE. If you cannot see it coming then you never will........

I'm in Budapest at the moment for an innovation conference, and I can honestly say that I wouldn't be able to place any single one of the people I've met. They all speak very good English, their clothing or mannerism doesn't mark them out as some kind of alien species. Heck, even the food was standard international faire. What's more, they don't have the slightest inkling of us and them. They're just people. It's good to remember that sometimes, and globalisation has meant we work alongside them, live alongside them, socialise and romanticise with them.
 

Not to screw us over. It's just that what the Single Currency countries want is not necessarily what we want, but the EU will always support and follow the direction wanted by the SC group. We are seen as being on the outside and as someone who therefore has to be brought into line, step by step.......

That's just it, I don't think anyone sees us that way at all. The media might like to whip up differences as it helps them to sell papers, but I doubt any EU/EC official sees us as some kind of enemy that needs to be managed.

IMO, the world's a generally nicer place when we collaborate with our fellow man rather than compete with them.
 
And they've got away with most of that, without us ever really consenting, and I agree that it is a massive problem.

But a couple of those things are misleading. The trading block was always going to grow. The single currency isn't mandatory (thank goodness)...

I think the current EU is crap and I've not been hoodwinked into believing that our glorious Prime Minister has won us a wonderful deal, however some of the arguments for leaving are also based on presumptions crap.

We were so close to joining the Euro, without any vote being had, and it was only because Brown said no to Blair. That was a lucky escape. There is presumptuous crap all over the place I agree, but before joining the 'Common Market' we happily traded all over the world and conditions for world trade are much better now than they were then. We will still trade with the EU because they sell more to us than we sell to them. There is nothing to be frightened of, it's just a case of do we wish to be a region of a large political bloc where our votes count for very little, or do we wish to control our own way and where we can change directions using our votes........
 
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That's just it, I don't think anyone sees us that way at all. The media might like to whip up differences as it helps them to sell papers, but I doubt any EU/EC official sees us as some kind of enemy that needs to be managed.

IMO, the world's a generally nicer place when we collaborate with our fellow man rather than compete with them.

It's only you using words like 'enemy'. The world obviously is a nicer place where we collaborate, which we do and have always done. So why do we have to be part of the EU to do it. In respect of competing, we and everyone else always will. Which is why the Germans build cars and we sell Financial Services..........
 
The European Union's goal is a United States of Europe. No doubt about it.

It's laws are supreme over nation states laws, it has a flag, an anthem, a currency, open borders and it's heading for an EU army.
 
I'm in Budapest at the moment for an innovation conference, and I can honestly say that I wouldn't be able to place any single one of the people I've met. They all speak very good English, their clothing or mannerism doesn't mark them out as some kind of alien species. Heck, even the food was standard international faire. What's more, they don't have the slightest inkling of us and them. They're just people. It's good to remember that sometimes, and globalisation has meant we work alongside them, live alongside them, socialise and romanticise with them.

I do agree with you Bruce about working with people. I've worked with many countries throughout the world and always had good relationships. But that doesn't mean I would want the UK to be politically part of China, Russia or Turkey. Collaborate, work together, but we can still do this as an independent nation........
 



They lied then, they lie now.



I do agree with you Bruce about working with people. I've worked with many countries throughout the world and always had good relationships. But that doesn't mean I would want the UK to be politically part of China, Russia or Turkey. Collaborate, work together, but we can still do this as an independent nation........

Exactly, I want to work with other nations too. Leaving the EU is not because one has a dislike for Europe. I love Europe and I want them out of the European Union too because I think it's bad for us and it's bad for them.
 
It's only you using words like 'enemy'. The world obviously is a nicer place where we collaborate, which we do and have always done. So why do we have to be part of the EU to do it. In respect of competing, we and everyone else always will. Which is why the Germans build cars and we sell Financial Services..........

Really? I suspect we're currently in the longest period in our entire history where there hasn't been an armed conflict with another European nation. I wouldn't say that the EU is solely responsible for that, but you must surely accept that so many conflicts are based on over-simplified generalisations about huge groups of people. Those generalisations tend to melt away when you work and live alongside people as you get to understand them more. That's a truly beautiful thing, and the free movement of goods and people is how the world should be.

I see many of those friendly relationships breaking down without an institution forcing us to play nicely as there is an awful lot of populism throughout the continent right now whereby an external entity is blamed for the woes of the locals. That isn't promoting cooperation at all, and quite the opposite, and I do genuinely fear a return to the times when Europe was a continent full of largely homogeneous factions all squabbling and fighting.

Regarding your subsequent point, it seems that in our globalised world that many of our challenges required a united front. Climate change for instance only really works if all nations in the world agree on how it could be tackled. Driverless technology will need a common approach to legislation for it to function properly. The Internet has worked because it's had just that and we haven't had different countries having different Internets.

Anyway, I'm going to have to go and complain about the lack of gulas on the menu :)
 
Really? I suspect we're currently in the longest period in our entire history where there hasn't been an armed conflict with another European nation. I wouldn't say that the EU is solely responsible for that, but you must surely accept that so many conflicts are based on over-simplified generalisations about huge groups of people. Those generalisations tend to melt away when you work and live alongside people as you get to understand them more. That's a truly beautiful thing, and the free movement of goods and people is how the world should be.

I see many of those friendly relationships breaking down without an institution forcing us to play nicely as there is an awful lot of populism throughout the continent right now whereby an external entity is blamed for the woes of the locals. That isn't promoting cooperation at all, and quite the opposite, and I do genuinely fear a return to the times when Europe was a continent full of largely homogeneous factions all squabbling and fighting.

Regarding your subsequent point, it seems that in our globalised world that many of our challenges required a united front. Climate change for instance only really works if all nations in the world agree on how it could be tackled. Driverless technology will need a common approach to legislation for it to function properly. The Internet has worked because it's had just that and we haven't had different countries having different Internets.

Anyway, I'm going to have to go and complain about the lack of gulas on the menu :)

Have a great time.......
 

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