The EU deal

Groucho · April 23, 2016

Bruce Wayne said:
Of course, but that's probably true for anything that the public are asked to vote on. I guess when you get to a certain level of decision making then complexity rises at a similar pace as uncertainty, so you'd be having ever more complicated 'workings out' to explain outcomes that are anything but certain. I mean how many times would you hear a politician saying "we think that if we do xyz, there's a 60% chance it will do this..."? Yet that's the reality of things.

So instead we get soundbites that portray the outcome as certain, which might be more digestible for folks with busy lives but is perhaps not ideal for making informed judgements either way.

For me, if they want people to make an informed decision, they at least need to inform the people!

SNova · April 24, 2016

SNova · April 25, 2016

SNova said:

Pienaar's gloves · April 25, 2016

What happens to all the folks who have dedicated their lives and careers to getting a referendum if/when we vote to stay in?

I'd love to see Farage become pointless.

Walken · April 25, 2016

SNova said:

I don't really even understand the situation, but honestly, I'm voting to stay in because I just don't want you to get your way

SNova · April 25, 2016

Pienaar's gloves said:
What happens to all the folks who have dedicated their lives and careers to getting a referendum if/when we vote to stay in?

I'd love to see Farage become pointless.

Like the SNP did?

Pienaar's gloves · April 25, 2016

SNova said:
Like the SNP did?

Two entirely different and mostly incomparable groups.

Firstly, the SNP is a part of government in Scotland with representation in just about every electable body they could hope for. Strip away the independence movement, and the SNP are just a progressive centrist party, maybe a little bit to the left. Very electable in Scotland given the demise of Labour and quite a good record in office. The Eurosceptic movement doesn't have that. Sure there are some Tory MP's (and one or two Labour?), but aside from that what are you left with?
UKIP - party is a mess, can't even agree on how to campaign for Brexit, never mind get their house in order to become a real force.
English Democrats - more left-wing version of UKIP

Secondly, Scottish nationalists are going to win their battle in the end. Not sure if that is the case with the Eurosceptics if we vote to remain.

peteblue · April 25, 2016

Groucho said:
Sorry mate I just meant in the day to day slog.

I'm voting IN currently.

Why on Earth would you want political unity with Turkey, which is what will ultimately happen if we stay in. If we vote to stay in, the EU will take that as a yes to put the United States of Europe in place........if we vote LEAVE, deals will immediately be done to try and keep us in.......so if we stay in we get a better deal, if we actually leave we will end up with a better deal.......we can't lose if we vote LEAVE, if we vote to stay IN we are just rolling over and then Brussels can just do as it likes and completely ignore the UK view..........

Pienaar's gloves · April 25, 2016

peteblue said:
Why on Earth would you want political unity with Turkey, which is what will ultimately happen if we stay in. If we vote to stay in, the EU will take that as a yes to put the United States of Europe in place........if we vote LEAVE, deals will immediately be done to try and keep us in.......so if we stay in we get a better deal, if we actually leave we will end up with a better deal.......we can't lose if we vote LEAVE, if we vote to stay IN we are just rolling over and then Brussels can just do as it likes and completely ignore the UK view..........

And to think, the leave campaign have the audacity to claim that the remain campaign are scaremongering.

'United States of Europe' etc., right.

peteblue · April 25, 2016

Pienaar's gloves said:
And to think, the leave campaign have the audacity to claim that the remain campaign are scaremongering.

'United States of Europe' etc., right.

Do you think there will not be a USE........

Bruce Wayne · April 25, 2016

peteblue said:
Why on Earth would you want political unity with Turkey, which is what will ultimately happen if we stay in. If we vote to stay in, the EU will take that as a yes to put the United States of Europe in place........if we vote LEAVE, deals will immediately be done to try and keep us in.......so if we stay in we get a better deal, if we actually leave we will end up with a better deal.......we can't lose if we vote LEAVE, if we vote to stay IN we are just rolling over and then Brussels can just do as it likes and completely ignore the UK view..........

Pete, why do you think people are out to screw us over? I haven't met a single European (bureaucrat or otherwise) that even remotely thinks that.

Groucho · April 25, 2016

peteblue said:
Why on Earth would you want political unity with Turkey, which is what will ultimately happen if we stay in. If we vote to stay in, the EU will take that as a yes to put the United States of Europe in place........if we vote LEAVE, deals will immediately be done to try and keep us in.......so if we stay in we get a better deal, if we actually leave we will end up with a better deal.......we can't lose if we vote LEAVE, if we vote to stay IN we are just rolling over and then Brussels can just do as it likes and completely ignore the UK view..........

I think you overestimate my interest in the subject Pete.

If we leave the EU we still have to abide by their trade rules to trade with them, which I assume we will still want to.

But to be honest I'd like an unbiased dissection of both arguments, and then I'll make my decision. I've yet to see one.

Pienaar's gloves · April 25, 2016

peteblue said:
Do you think there will not be a USE........

Correct mate!

And to be honest, even if it did (and I don't think there is a cat in hells chance), that is where the British public would draw a line and definitely leave.

peteblue · April 25, 2016

Pienaar's gloves said:
Correct mate!

And to be honest, even if it did (and I don't think there is a cat in hells chance), that is where the British public would draw a line and definitely leave.

Hahaha......we joined a trading block, the trading block enlarged, it started issuing laws and legal judgements, it introduced a single currency, it appointed a President, it has an EU head for Foreign Affairs, it continues to enlarge, it wishes to have an EU Army......there is no line to draw because it's just a series of little steps until the 'EU Project' delivers a USE. If you cannot see it coming then you never will........

peteblue · April 25, 2016

Groucho said:
I think you overestimate my interest in the subject Pete.

If we leave the EU we still have to abide by their trade rules to trade with them, which I assume we will still want to.

But to be honest I'd like an unbiased dissection of both arguments, and then I'll make my decision. I've yet to see one.

If we leave we negotiate a trade deal with the EU, just like everyone else. No one follows 'their rules' just whatever the trade agreement says. As I've said before, trade with the EU accounts for just 10% of our GDP.......