The EU deal

[roydo]

Sorry, bizarro has read Wikipedia and knows more than you

lol

 

[jal123]

Also anyone who uses 'Brexit' needs slaughtering.

 

[dholliday]

I am.

But only cos folk buy things on the internet.

same mate! to be fair you & i are probably doing alright out of it...i don't trade much with Switzerland because they're not EU and it complicates online-transactions.

Still, there's a broader picture also to consider. Or maybe not...nowt wrong with voting just from your personal perspective.

No easy answer, really.

 

[roydo]

same mate! to be fair you & i are probably doing alright out of it...i don't trade much with Switzerland because they're not EU and it complicates online-transactions.

Still, there's a broader picture also to consider. Or maybe not...nowt wrong with voting just from your personal perspective.

No easy answer, really.

I honestly dont know how to vote.

On the one hand, the idea of staying and the EU getting more emboldened is horrid. But then the main advocates of leaving are a pretty unappealing bunch.

Then workers rights and fluffy stuff like climate change, (which I dont really give a fig about actually), are better from a larger group.

But uncontrolled immigration is pretty lousy.

But a multi cultural population is ace.

Might abstain, then can blame folk when it goes wrong, either way.

 

[bizzaro]

What isnt?

An educated lad who lives and works in Berlin (?) probably has a better feel for a German perspective than someone who does neither.

"Switzerland and Norway are doing fine by limiting their obligations to the EU without being a full part of it."

The emboldened bit. The Swiss for example - do not completely exclude themselves from EU laws. In order to trade with EU Swiss companies have to abide by EU law when doing business in EU.

They do this by the Cassis de Dijon Principles for virtually all products.

Its strictly wrong to try and say that either Switzerland or Norway have limited obligations to the EU.


The idea that Brexit will mean that British companies suddenly are regulation free is ridiculous. Its also dangerous since most of these common market rules are there to protect people. Bad politicians making wild dangerous claims that they cannot deliver.

The EU regulations are that good they are applied globally including ASEAN area.

So EU becomes a global leader. Its then easier to do business within and without EU.

Thats why.

 

[dholliday]

Also anyone who uses 'Brexit' needs slaughtering.

this is the problem with the debate: two sides just at each other's throats calling each other names, while most of us are in the middle trying to find out how to decide what's best.

 

[dholliday]

I honestly dont know how to vote.

On the one hand, the idea of staying and the EU getting more emboldened is horrid. But then the main advocates of leaving are a pretty unappealing bunch.

Then workers rights and fluffy stuff like climate change, (which I dont really give a fig about actually), are better from a larger group.

But uncontrolled immigration is pretty lousy.

But a multi cultural population is ace.

Might abstain, then can blame folk when it goes wrong, either way.

Aye...your impression is pretty much correct on those things...it can be quite a 50/50 choice when you really list the pros/cons.

I'd say do exercise your right to vote. Maybe read Orwell's 1984 before you do.

"Switzerland and Norway are doing fine by limiting their obligations to the EU without being a full part of it."

The emboldened bit. The Swiss for example - do not completely exclude themselves from EU laws. In order to trade with EU Swiss companies have to abide by EU law when doing business in EU.

They do this by the Cassis de Dijon Principles for virtually all products.

Its strictly wrong to try and say that either Switzerland or Norway have limited obligations to the EU.


The idea that Brexit will mean that British companies suddenly are regulation free is ridiculous. Its also dangerous since most of these common market rules are there to protect people. Bad politicians making wild dangerous claims that they cannot deliver.

The EU regulations are that good they are applied globally including ASEAN area.

So EU becomes a global leader. Its then easier to do business within and without EU.

Thats why.

I didn't say they "completely exclude themselves" from EU laws.

 

[bizzaro]

Sorry, bizarro has read Wikipedia and knows more than you

See last post.

 

[roydo]

The Swiss for example - do not completely exclude themselves from EU laws.

Its strictly wrong to try and say that either Switzerland or Norway have limited obligations to the EU.

Cant have it both ways mate.

The idea that Brexit will mean that British companies suddenly are regulation free is ridiculous.

I know.

I was asking about the generic man on the street view.

 

[roydo]

I'd say do exercise your right to vote. Maybe read Orwell's 1984 before you do.

Was joking! And well versed in 1984.

 

[carlos21]

Was joking! And well versed in 1984.

I agree with your point there.

 

[dholliday]

Was joking! And well versed in 1984.

aye...very prescient that man. My feeling is he would make the case for Brexit in that logical plainspeaking way of his, while acknowledging those on the Brexit camp aren't the best role-models (Boris, Farage etc).

 

[bizzaro]

'doing fine' can be interpreted in a number of ways.

Is Britain 'doing fine' right now?

There is only one issue that would resolve this.

Immigration.

The overly wide interpretation by the European Court ECHR (nothing to do with the EU - its a Council of Europe related organisation) is distorting perceptions. The German politicians view with their own agenda is also impacting British views on the same issue. Germany was up to this year in population decline. The UK is in a population boom with no controls on it due to weakening of the legislative powers of the British state due to the above.


If this issue was resolved everything else in this referendum would disappear.

In other words. Anglea Merkel and the German state bears some responsibility for the British referendum happening in the first place.

Their refusal to negotiate on that issue.

 

[dholliday]

There is only one issue that would resolve this.

Immigration.

The overly wide interpretation by the European Court ECHR (nothing to do with the EU - its a Council of Europe related organisation) is distorting perceptions. The German politicians view with their own agenda is also impacting British views on the same issue. Germany was up to this year in population decline. The UK is in a population boom with no controls on it due to weakening of the legislative powers of the British state due to the above.


If this issue was resolved everything else in this referendum would disappear.

In other words. Anglea Merkel and the German state bears some responsibility for the British referendum happening in the first place.

Their refusal to negotiate on that issue.

we're in full agreement here, damo...the mass migrant wave from last Autumn was managed in quite the authoritan fashion by Merkel, in the name of the EU.

While clearly everyone wants to help people in need, there's a lot of issues about how all that went down...not a great advert for the EU and may prove to be decisive in the voting.

 

[bizzaro]

we're in full agreement here, damo...the mass migrant wave from last Autumn was managed in quite the authoritan fashion by Merkel, in the name of the EU.

While clearly everyone wants to help people in need, there's a lot of issues about how all that went down...not a great advert for the EU and may prove to be decisive in the voting.

No one in the UK is anti immigration. What they want is more controls on it. To ensure its efficient and meets the needs of the country.

Its this sort of thing that the UK is trying to use the referendum to extract leverage.

My personal view as a business man and a proud British person. I want to stay in. I do want the EU and particularly Angela Merkel to keep its nose out of critical national issues. The UK has an out of control population boom.

Germany and most certainly Angela Merkel does not dictate policy here in the UK.


This sort of thing does not help:

http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-...-accept-brexit-if-cameron-limits-immigration/
Germany will accept Brexit if Cameron limits immigration
3 Nov 2014
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has warned Britain’s David Cameron that putting limits on immigration from other European Union nations would be a “point of no return” that could sharply increase the risk of Britain leaving the EU, a magazine said.

The respected weekly Der Spiegel, citing unnamed sources in Merkel’s office and the German foreign ministry, reported on Sunday (2 November) that Merkel was becoming worried for the first time that a British exit from the EU – dubbed “Brexit” – was a real possibility.

Under growing pressure from the anti-EU UK Independence Party (UKIP) ahead of a May 2015 national election, Cameron’s Conservatives have said they would try to cap immigration from the rest of the EU if re-elected.

Both Merkel and the European Commission in Brussels have said this would violate a fundamental EU principle that allows citizens of the bloc to live and work in any member state.

Spiegel cited sources in Berlin saying that if Cameron does insist on limiting the number of immigrants from other EU states, “there will be no going back”.

“Should Cameron persist (in this plan), Chancellor Angela Merkel would abandon her efforts to keep Britain in the EU. With that a point of no return would be reached,” it quoted the sources as saying, adding: “That would be it then.”