The EU deal

[Seanjd]

It (immigration) probably is in a lot of areas that are more affected by it than I am down here.

But the irony is that the self same rules allow Brits who have the means can swan off to Tuscany and France and practically colonise areas there is lost on many who, probably, would gripe about it over here.

Like on balance, to me, if something can be supported by Cameron and Corbyn, maybe for different reasons, then it has serious merit.

And in the same vein, something that unites, (sic), Boris and Farage, probably isnt that great for the bulk of the country.

The immigration aspect of the 'debate' is hilarious. You had a bunch of tories telling us to vote for them during the general election because they're tough in immigration, of whom a section of are now telling us to vote leave because it will mean we can get touch on immigration. I abhor how immigration is, again, being allowed to dominate. On the whole, it doesn't affect anyone anywhere near the way it's portrayed to, except in a positive way. Leaving the EU ain't gunna free up a load of jobs for 100% British Brits to step into, that's for sure.

I am sure there are proper, mainly economic reasons for leaving the EU which I am still not aware of due to lack of research. I'll have to go out of my way to research it properly though, because you stick on the tele and just hear about immigration. It is totally clouding the debate.

 

[daylightrobber]

I watched a bit of lunchtime news today just call me Dave put forward the argument that holidays in Europe may become more expensive,I havent heard either side put up a strong argument for the things that people actually care about

Well I care about opportunity; for myself and my family as well as for others. I firmly believe that being in the EU presents the opportunity for everyone in the EU to better themselves should they so wish. That could be simply from experiencing other cultures to working on the continent with little to no restriction. We all have those options on our doorstep and that really is a privilege that we should embrace, not snub.

 

[jaycee]

Well I care about opportunity; for myself and my family as well as for others. I firmly believe that being in the EU presents the opportunity for everyone in the EU to better themselves should they so wish. That could be simply from experiencing other cultures to working on the continent with little to no restriction. We all have those options on our doorstep and that really is a privilege that we should embrace, not snub.

You miss my point my friend I was saying that all i hear is hot air from both sides,scaremongering, no real facts from either group all i see is the press pushing forward immigration as the be all and end all
I want to hear about how it will affect workers rights,how will it help the victims of a callous austerity rule against the most vunerable and poorest of the so called big society I dont really give a toss whether its going to cost more to go to Spain

 

[peteblue]

I dont believe voting out is right wing. The people campaigning for it mostly are. Austerity gave them licence to attack the poor and public sector. No EU will allow them to attack living standards even more. They want all of us to help the rich get richer.
Boris, Farage etc. Evil.
Dont take it personally, they are a con trick that even Osborne will not stoop to.

Tell this to the Greeks.......

 

[peteblue]

Thats the thing isnt it?

Like part of me thinks if we voted out, then the EU, well Germany, would actually prefer us to stay, so we might then be able to get a better deal, and then stay in. But we might not.

The cost is astronomical. Uncontrolled immigrations aint great.

But workers rights, free movement of people is good, (and I know, thats a contradiction!), the thought that no matter how nutty an extreme government here could still be piped down by the EU is not the worst thing ever.

But the CAP is bonkers, the fisheries policy is bust, and we do have too many rules made over there.

And if we vote to stay, then thats that. The EU could go bat ape with stuff after then.

Sake.

The safest thing to do is vote Leave. Then we will see how much the EU wants us. It's like the ERM all over again, doom and gloom if we leave, we did and had the best economic run we've ever had.........

 

[Rob17896]

Then unfortunately you need to be more informed on the subject.

If you think it is a right wing prerogative to want to leave the EU, you are mistaken. The rhetoric has been hijacked by a media to narrow the discussion down to two points only, immigration and economics, both mainstays of right leaning politics, yet the reason I wish to leave is that of democratic self determjnation. The lack of democracy and accountability in the EU is staggering and the ambition it holds is to tighten that.

That doesn't make me a rabid nazi does it?

Never said it does. Agree about self-determination but we have a voting system that does not allow it. We have the most right wing government in our post-war history I think and yet they won about 36% of the vote.
For me the wider context of

I watched a bit of lunchtime news today just call me Dave put forward the argument that holidays in Europe may become more expensive,I havent heard either side put up a strong argument for the things that people actually care about

Yep. They think we are simple for sure. I want to stay in but they used house price inflation as a good reason to stay in. Yes, lets make them even less affordable and ensure everybody becomes even more indebted to the barrow boys in the square mile.

 

[Rob17896]

Tell this to the Greeks.......

Never claimed it was perfect. We should be arguing for another solution. Everyone is paying for the financial crisis except those who created it. That includes politicians were too scared to control the banks.

 

[peteblue]

Well I care about opportunity; for myself and my family as well as for others. I firmly believe that being in the EU presents the opportunity for everyone in the EU to better themselves should they so wish. That could be simply from experiencing other cultures to working on the continent with little to no restriction. We all have those options on our doorstep and that really is a privilege that we should embrace, not snub.

Wow, you seem to think the EU is a socialist heaven. The Greeks don't think it is, Spain has unemployment through the roof, immigration is causing barriers to be put up everywhere and Turkey is making a fortune blackmailing Germany. The EU is a dogs dinner, run by people you do not elect, whose laws are forced upon us like it or not. We all have a vote in the forthcoming referendum, it could be the last vote you have...........

 

[daylightrobber]

You miss my point my friend I was saying that all i hear is hot air from both sides,scaremongering, no real facts from either group all i see is the press pushing forward immigration as the be all and end all
I want to hear about how it will affect workers rights,how will it help the victims of a callous austerity rule against the most vunerable and poorest of the so called big society I dont really give a toss whether its going to cost more to go to Spain

With all due respect, think you underestimate the value of the easy access we have to the resources and cultures of our neighbours. The influence extends through industry, science, architecture, the arts. I'm not talking about holidays, I'm talking about access to knowledge and influence which shapes our world.

 

[jaycee]

With all due respect, think you underestimate the value of the easy access we have to the resources and cultures of our neighbours. The influence extends through industry, science, architecture, the arts. I'm not talking about holidays, I'm talking about access to knowledge and influence which shapes our world.

And again I am saying if you expect people to vote in such a critical part of our policies then give facts,figures and evidence one way or the other as I said produce evidence that being in or out is of benefit rather than saying a holiday MAY be more expensive,

 

[peteblue]

With all due respect, think you underestimate the value of the easy access we have to the resources and cultures of our neighbours. The influence extends through industry, science, architecture, the arts. I'm not talking about holidays, I'm talking about access to knowledge and influence which shapes our world.

Access to immigration and cultures. Is that it then. We can bring in millions to force down the pay and take the jobs of Britons and we can do what exactly with their culture that we couldn't do before......I'm sorry mate, I really try to understand this world of OZ that you think exists, but it is an establishment con, for the benefit of multinationals.....if you cannot see this then you never will......

 

[Rob17896]

Wow, you seem to think the EU is a socialist heaven. The Greeks don't think it is, Spain has unemployment through the roof, immigration is causing barriers to be put up everywhere and Turkey is making a fortune blackmailing Germany. The EU is a dogs dinner, run by people you do not elect, whose laws are forced upon us like it or not. We all have a vote in the forthcoming referendum, it could be the last vote you have...........

I am going to shut up now..am on one. The EU is far from perfect but it does ensure better rights, health and safety etc than China, Germany are streets ahead in renewable energy rather than fracking the planet to death like the states. Black people tend not to get shot for minor crime in the EU, unlike the states. You can slag off the government unlike China.Europe can be improved but it is the most decent continent on the planet to live in and promotes standards and rule of law.

 

[Rob17896]

Wow, you seem to think the EU is a socialist heaven. The Greeks don't think it is, Spain has unemployment through the roof, immigration is causing barriers to be put up everywhere and Turkey is making a fortune blackmailing Germany. The EU is a dogs dinner, run by people you do not elect, whose laws are forced upon us like it or not. We all have a vote in the forthcoming referendum, it could be the last vote you have...........

I am going to shut up now..am on one. The EU is far from perfect but it does ensure better rights, health and safety etc than China, Germany are streets ahead in renewable energy rather than fracking the planet to death like the states. Black people tend not to get shot for minor crime in the EU, unlike the states. You can slag off the government unlike China.Europe can be improved but it is the most decent continent on the planet to live in and promotes standards and rule of law.

 

[peteblue]

I am going to shut up now..am on one. The EU is far from perfect but it does ensure better rights, health and safety etc than China, Germany are streets ahead in renewable energy rather than fracking the planet to death like the states. Black people tend not to get shot for minor crime in the EU, unlike the states. You can [Poor language removed] off the government unlike China.Europe can be improved but it is the most decent continent on the planet to live in and promotes standards and rule of law.

So everything the the UK does anyway and the UK is better than anything the EU can offer, so why insist in being part of it.........

 

[magicjuan]

I am going to shut up now..am on one. The EU is far from perfect but it does ensure better rights, health and safety etc than China, Germany are streets ahead in renewable energy rather than fracking the planet to death like the states. Black people tend not to get shot for minor crime in the EU, unlike the states. You can [Poor language removed] off the government unlike China.Europe can be improved but it is the most decent continent on the planet to live in and promotes standards and rule of law.

Most of that is a myth. The very system that wants you to dance to its tune is the one that gives you your opinions. I don't mean that in a patronising way, but as a construct of how the global system works, us good, them, very, very bad. You need to feel safe and secure from whichever bogeyman they put forward.

As for legislation. When the minimum wage came in lots of people jumped for joy like it was some victory, but the reality is that as long as a minimum is set and adhered to then legislation is met and an illusion is set. The minimum becomes the maximum they HAVE to pay if they so choose.