The EU deal

[Neiler]

What's the deal with Wales and Scotland, if England votes to leave and another country votes to stay they will have to leave anyway.

Seriously tell me that's not the case in a modern democracy.

 

[peteblue]

What's the deal with Wales and Scotland, if England votes to leave and another country votes to stay they will have to leave anyway.

Seriously tell me that's not the case in a modern democracy.

It's the UK that is voting. It's doesn't matter how the vote is dispersed. .......

 

[Neiler]

It's the UK that is voting. It's doesn't matter how the vote is dispersed. .......

Might do if your Scottish or Welsh though, seems archaic, how a different nation can decide this for another, England voting power is what over 5 times bigger then both other populations combined.

It's rather wrong really.

That said I might have access to a duty free paradise an hour and a half up the motor way.

 

[Seathestars]

With all due respect, think you underestimate the value of the easy access we have to the resources and cultures of our neighbours. The influence extends through industry, science, architecture, the arts. I'm not talking about holidays, I'm talking about access to knowledge and influence which shapes our world.

Brunel
Darwin
Shakespeare
Dickens
Sir Isaac Newton
Fleming
Bell
The llist of great British people is endless, point being, we've done quite alright without the EU before, we can do it again.

 

[Rob17896]

So everything the the UK does anyway and the UK is better than anything the EU can offer, so why insist in being part of it.........

Disagree

 

[Rob17896]

Brunel
Darwin
Shakespeare
Dickens
Sir Isaac Newton
Fleming
Bell
The llist of great British people is endless, point being, we've done quite alright without the EU before, we can do it again.

I dont get it. Cant get the idea that what is best for Britain alone is the point. Could argue about the merits of each state but that is secondary to the idea of mutual co-operation and standards as well as shared learning. Just think we have a different idea of what is beneficial. Enjoyed the discussion.☺

 

[The Cowboy]

Might do if your Scottish or Welsh though, seems archaic, how a different nation can decide this for another, England voting power is what over 5 times bigger then both other populations combined.

It's rather wrong really.

That said I might have access to a duty free paradise an hour and a half up the motor way.

Eh? We live in the UK, if Wales and Scotland want to vote differently from England then perhaps they need to leave the union first. But the Scots voted against that.

 

[daylightrobber]

Brunel

son of a French man. Part educated in France

Darwin

most famous for work resulting from living abroad.

Shakespeare

passionate anti xenophobe, inspired hugely by foreigners and foreign lands, at a time when travel to them was not so easy. Imagine if it were.

Dickens

very much broadened his horizons through travel to and residence in both Europe and the US.

Sir Isaac Newton

influenced by and influencer of scientists of all nationalities. If he'd have been alive today he'd have been working in collaboration with and in close proximity to other great minds progressing science faster and further.

Fleming

and before Fleming came Duchesne. Perhaps if he'd have had the benefit of studying in the UK his discovery of penicillin 32yrs earlier may not have been overlooked!

Bell

the formative years of his most famous invention were spent living abroad.

No doubt all these were Great Brits, but there's also strong argument that they were influenced by the opening up of the world (as much as could be expected for their respective times) and the fact that they had opportunity.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You miss my point my friend I was saying that all i hear is hot air from both sides,scaremongering, no real facts from either group all i see is the press pushing forward immigration as the be all and end all
I want to hear about how it will affect workers rights,how will it help the victims of a callous austerity rule against the most vunerable and poorest of the so called big society I dont really give a toss whether its going to cost more to go to Spain

That's the problem isn't it? You're asking for certainties, and politicians would love to give you certainty, but in all honesty they can't, because it's far too complex to offer certainty. They might be able to say if we leave that there's a probability xyz would happen, which would be honest but unlikely to yield many votes.

Likewise, the stay group might say that if we stay there's a chance we can reform the EU, or there's a chance that Europe may remain united, but that's all it is, a probability.

It would serve politics much better if they started using 'might' rather than 'will', but I doubt that will ever happen.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Wow, you seem to think the EU is a socialist heaven. The Greeks don't think it is, Spain has unemployment through the roof, immigration is causing barriers to be put up everywhere and Turkey is making a fortune blackmailing Germany. The EU is a dogs dinner, run by people you do not elect, whose laws are forced upon us like it or not. We all have a vote in the forthcoming referendum, it could be the last vote you have...........

Isn't that a little disingenuous though Pete? I could have sworn when we had a thread on Greece that you were firmly in the 'they lived outside their means and should get real' camp (I paraphrase for brevity). Baring in mind the only real thing that unites extreme left and right is that they blame outsiders for their problems (whether the Troika or immigrants), would you be happy if Syreza type parties sprung up throughout southern Europe? Would you be happy if UKIP style parties sprung up throughout central/northern Europe?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

What's the deal with Wales and Scotland, if England votes to leave and another country votes to stay they will have to leave anyway.

Seriously tell me that's not the case in a modern democracy.

Hasn't really been addressed has it? Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland do quite well out of EU membership, and whilst Scotland has been a bit more prominent due to their recent referendum, the other two haven't said much (that I'm aware of).

Might it trigger a scenario where northern and southern Ireland re-unite, for instance? The Republic already does reasonably in an economic sense by being an English speaking gateway to Europe. It might be economically sensible for them to do so, but politically and socially...

 

[jaycee]

That's the problem isn't it? You're asking for certainties, and politicians would love to give you certainty, but in all honesty they can't, because it's far too complex to offer certainty. They might be able to say if we leave that there's a probability xyz would happen, which would be honest but unlikely to yield many votes.

Likewise, the stay group might say that if we stay there's a chance we can reform the EU, or there's a chance that Europe may remain united, but that's all it is, a probability.

It would serve politics much better if they started using 'might' rather than 'will', but I doubt that will ever happen.

Dont really think im asking for cold hard facts i am asking for some one to say why the reasons for staying or leaving are going to impact on us,example those wanting out often quote" if we exit we save x amount of billions that could build x amount of schools or hospitals" now we know the money wont be used for them purposes so is that saving going to be used to help the people who need it most or squirreled away intil it can be used to give the most benefit to those least needing it

 

[daylightrobber]

Brunel

son of a French man. Part educated in France

Darwin

most famous for work resulting from living abroad.

Shakespeare

passionate anti xenophobe, inspired hugely by foreigners and foreign lands, at a time when travel to them was not so easy. Imagine if it were.

Dickens

very much broadened his horizons through travel to and residence in both Europe and the US.

Sir Isaac Newton

influenced by and influencer of scientists of all nationalities. If he'd have been alive today he'd have been working in collaboration with and in close proximity to other great minds progressing science faster and further.

Fleming

and before Fleming came Duchesne. Perhaps if he'd have had the benefit of studying in the UK his discovery of penicillin 32yrs earlier may not have been overlooked!

Bell

the formative years of his most famous invention were spent living abroad.

No doubt all these were Great Brits, but there's also strong argument that they were influenced by the opening up of the world (as much as could be expected for their respective times) and the fact that they had opportunity.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

son of a French man. Part educated in France

most famous for work resulting from living abroad.

passionate anti xenophobe, inspired hugely by foreigners and foreign lands, at a time when travel to them was not so easy. Imagine if it were.

very much broadened his horizons through travel to and residence in both Europe and the US.

influenced by and influencer of scientists of all nationalities. If he'd have been alive today he'd have been working in collaboration with and in close proximity to other great minds progressing science faster and further.

and before Fleming came Duchesne. Perhaps if he'd have had the benefit of studying in the UK his discovery of penicillin 32yrs earlier may not have been overlooked!

the formative years of his most famous invention were spent living abroad.

No doubt all these were Great Brits, but there's also strong argument that they were influenced by the opening up of the world (as much as could be expected for their respective times) and the fact that they had opportunity.

I quite agree. Science today is a collaborative endeavour whereby, to quote Newton, we all stand on the shoulders of giants. We're lucky to have some fantastically bright people studying and researching here from all over the world, and likewise have exceptional links throughout Europe. It would be a real shame if that were threatened.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Dont really think im asking for cold hard facts i am asking for some one to say why the reasons for staying or leaving are going to impact on us,example those wanting out often quote" if we exit we save x amount of billions that could build x amount of schools or hospitals" now we know the money wont be used for them purposes so is that saving going to be used to help the people who need it most or squirreled away intil it can be used to give the most benefit to those least needing it

But again though, with respect you're asking for guaranteed savings there. They're no more guaranteed than some bloke going on Dragons Den saying they'll make £x million in year two. They're predictions, not guarantees. As the saying goes, the best laid plans seldom survive the first shot of battle, so there are almost certainly going to be many costs (and benefits) that are not even thought of today, much less communicated in this campaign (from either side). It's a risky game supposing that if we do x then y will result. Life generally isn't that simple, and folks whose job is to predict the future generally have a range of possible scenarios, each with probabilities attached to them.