The Everton Board Thread (Inc. Bill Kenwright / Blue Union)

[Matt Damon]

It always surprises me when Evertonians cant fathom why we havnt been taken over,

Its not that straight forward for me mate - yes it seems to make economic sense, but to spin it on its head we have three if not four major investers each holding a significant proportion of a shareholding. Each will try and look after their own intrests. Ever wonder why when Bill is quoted as saying he wants investment rather then takeover, its basicly because no one can take over the club based on his sharehollding, simple fact is anyone who takes over his shareholding can be out voted on the board if an alliance is made betwen other shareholders say Woods and Earl - there is no offical comment on what Woods and Earls intentions are.

I think your concept is assumeing that Bill, Woods and Earl are all on the same page in terms of wanting to sell their shareholding - this is far from certain and if if an investor came in it may make better sense not to sell to be honest. To give a simple example of number of different scenarios. Say Bill and Woods decided to sell their shareholding to say a billionaire from wherever, who was prepared to drop 400mill on the squad and stadium, why would Robert Earl sell - he would see his shareholding rocket. I have no dounbt this type of brinkmanship and postureing goes on behind the scenes and will continue to do so. So we are basicly looking for an investor to pour money in to the club, for possibly not 100% of the asset, not really likely to happen is it.

Ive always maintanied their are three reasons investment hasnt been forthcoming and i dont see that changeing eveen if people feel the current regime is hanging on by its fingernails:

1. The Complex shareholding and the fact its massively complex to buy the buissness 100%.

2. The investment required in terms of infrasturcture and squad development.

3. As much as we hate to admit it, we share a small geographic space with one of the biggest sport franchises in the sector, who earn double what we do, with little potential in terms of claiiming back market share.

Compare those factors to say takeover Newcaslte, where you could buy the club lock stock, no need to develop the infrastructure/stadium, while you have no compititon in a large geographical area.

If im honest i cant see things changeing signifcantly at the top.

Whilst you're correct regarding the complex share holding.

It wouldn't matter a carrot if say Earl didn't want to sell but Kenwright and Woods and say 10% of the minor shareholders did.

That would put the purchaser above 50% of voting rights. That is all that would be required.


Also whilst Earl would get first option to buy Kenwright's and Woods shares the fact Earl's shown no real interest in the club as a silent shareholder I'd like to see a court support Earl if there was ever a conflict with a new majority/controlling shareholder.


The key fact is valuation. If Kenwright and Woods and co are over valuing their shares the fact the club (Kenwright via the club) cannot finance any improvements means that they're locked into a business model that allows no real increase in turnover.

If that continues for a substantial period - then the creditors would become concerned.


Neiler, saying that we're locked into a geographical area, also neglects the fact there has been substantial increases in the size of Everton's global fanbase even on 10 years ago. We know it from all of the Australians, Americans, Dutch, Belgs and all our other friends on here.


The realization - of Kenwright is what I am saying is now there. That he cannot finance what needs to be financed.

 

[Matt Damon]

Actually, there's a third type of investment - someone who actually has the financial power to compete in the division, not tread water off the back of a shrewd scouting team and sound management.

I'm not asking for an Abramovich or even a Lerner; just somebody who can invest £10m net per year on the playing squad. There is no way that Everton are so unappealing that we can't bring in a board with that capability.

By the way, the current financial situation is irrelevant for two reasons - the first being that football is all-but immune to regular financial pressures, and the second is that Kenwrong has been claiming he has been seeking a new owner for a decade.

The man is a liar, basically. I don't say that word too easily, but he is. He has not sought a takeover in any credible way.

Whilst I don't agree with the terminolgy you've used I do know - he's RESISTED selling or interested parties.

Also if the investor doesn't make the mistakes of limiting the club's infrastructure capacity - such as the mistake of only making the Park End single tier etc ...

Its that type of thing - that will allow a net £10million spend to be made far more frequently.


Look at Anfield with 45000 seats v Goodison 40159 seats.


That means the dirty red lot have had £200k a game on us (neglecting any differential in pricing over the period) - for the past 19 years!

19 games x 19 x 200k =

that alone is an extra £73 MILLION in gate LEAGUE receipts above what Everton have taken, they've taken in since the Taylor Report recommendations were implemented!

That differential HAS TO BE CLOSED AND REVERSED NOW!



Kenwright and the rest of the board should know they're business men - that if they're not leading the infrastructure improvements in a MEANINGFUL WAY then they are failing in their duties to the shareholders. (and themselves).

But not only that they're party to a business model that ultimately is not improving the financial position of themselves or the club.

So by staying they're putting their own investment at risk.

 

[CarlosTheBaby]

Everton are almost in administration
By David O'Keefe : 05/02/2011 : Comments (6) :
Links are provided in this article to copies of relevant documents, made available here as electronic files in portable document format (pdf). The hypertext links will either open or offer to download these files, depending on your internet browser.

The club have sold one player and allowed four players to go out on loan during this transfer window. The manager is not happy and I find it hard to share his belief that there were no players of quality that he wanted to bring in to the club.

I do not want to accuse Moyes of lying; he isn’t; he has to abide the rules regarding data protection and confidentiality, the position at the club is the worst of them all. He knows what’s going on, but he can’t reveal it, lest it harms his career in football management.

Many supporters are rightly asking why the smallest squad in the league has allowed five players to leave and replaced them with no-one of any note. The answer is one that will shock, but not necessarily surprise you.

The club's credit rating has fallen from 30 to 12 out of 100. Cash transactions are preferred and a rating of 1-20 is labelled “caution – credit at your discretion”. The club is now unable to get any credit.

Before Christmas, the club took out another loan from Barclays to cover the Investec loan. This should be of great concern to all of us. The Investec loan, for those that do not know, was borrowed against next year’s revenues.

Why this is happening is immediately obvious: the club has run a tight ship for many years, but the business plan of the Kenwright regime (asset utilisation) has hit the wall. The debt repayments from the 14 existing mortgages, in combination with declining revenues, are responsible for the current difficulties...

“This asset utilization and disposal plan that has been adopted by the board, it can’t be sustained forever can it?”

“No” came the reply.

“It’s inherently unsustainable, won’t the assets run out and the loan repayments overwhelm the clubs ability to provide sufficient funds to obtain better players?”

“We have a highly qualified finance team and a good relationship with the bank. That wouldn't be allowed to happen,” replied Robert Elstone.

That good relationship with the banks appears to be at an end. Sadly, it gets worse, according to my source. This is the “murder” that a certain Echo journalist should know all about; if he doesn’t....

The club has spent the past month trying to prove to the auditors that they have sufficient funds to continue as a going concern; that is why the accounts have been delayed. The wage bill has increased and match-day revenues are down (attendances are down to around 34,000). Phillip Green is no longer acting as guarantor for the loans that the club has taken on; he has switched his interests to West Ham for obvious reasons. The banks want a reduction in the unsecured overdraft; to achieve this, Elstone has been told to take £6-8 million off the wage bill and raise £10 million net in cash.

Moyes is unhappy with this… and with good reason, his squad is going to be smaller and a key player will be sold to raise the £10 million in the summer. Chairman, CEO and Manager have been at each other’s throats… there very nearly was a murder at Goodison this January.

It can’t continue anymore — the club is close to administration, there are two options open to the board: rebuild or sell up.

 

[Matt Damon]

Everton are almost in administration
By David O'Keefe : 05/02/2011 : Comments (6) :

I've no time whatsoever for David O'Keefe.

And the soft **** is perpetuating that administration rumor due to an agenda.

Hence no time.

 

[Neiler]

Whilst you're correct regarding the complex share holding.

It wouldn't matter a carrot if say Earl didn't want to sell but Kenwright and Woods and say 10% of the minor shareholders did.

That would put the purchaser above 50% of voting rights. That is all that would be required.


Also whilst Earl would get first option to buy Kenwright's and Woods shares the fact Earl's shown no real interest in the club as a silent shareholder I'd like to see a court support Earl if there was ever a conflict with a new majority/controlling shareholder.


The key fact is valuation. If Kenwright and Woods and co are over valuing their shares the fact the club (Kenwright via the club) cannot finance any improvements means that they're locked into a business model that allows no real increase in turnover.

If that continues for a substantial period - then the creditors would become concerned.


Neiler, saying that we're locked into a geographical area, also neglects the fact there has been substantial increases in the size of Everton's global fanbase even on 10 years ago. We know it from all of the Australians, Americans, Dutch, Belgs and all our other friends on here.


The realization - of Kenwright is what I am saying is now there. That he cannot finance what needs to be financed.

To be honest mate, it doesnt make sense to me investment wise why someone would pump the level of capital we would need into a club for not a full shareholding, lineing someone elses pockets. If im honest i couldnt see the likes of Mansour or Abromovich doing it which is the type of investment we would need, especially when there are less complicated alternatives in the PL for investment with better profiles in terms of infrastucture. Its also presumeing Woods and Kenwright are on the same page as well which is far from clear after TBH ran its course. To be honest there are a number of scenarios, i just picked one of the top of my head.

Very true about the international market, but then thats a wider market place in itself compeateing with clubs from all over the world for market share, CL is where its at and even then it can take a while to develop a profile, you only have to look at what City have blown to get close to it - in attmept to progress and grow - to see the level of requirement that may be needed to develop further.

Just to say as well BT is bang on the money, DK was a massive oppurtuity missed.

Not trying to be pessimistic here mate, just objective and just how i see things.

 

[Neiler]

Everton are almost in administration
By David O'Keefe : 05/02/2011 : Comments (6) :
Links are provided in this article to copies of relevant documents, made available here as electronic files in portable document format (pdf). The hypertext links will either open or offer to download these files, depending on your internet browser.

The club have sold one player and allowed four players to go out on loan during this transfer window. The manager is not happy and I find it hard to share his belief that there were no players of quality that he wanted to bring in to the club.

I do not want to accuse Moyes of lying; he isn’t; he has to abide the rules regarding data protection and confidentiality, the position at the club is the worst of them all. He knows what’s going on, but he can’t reveal it, lest it harms his career in football management.

Many supporters are rightly asking why the smallest squad in the league has allowed five players to leave and replaced them with no-one of any note. The answer is one that will shock, but not necessarily surprise you.

The club's credit rating has fallen from 30 to 12 out of 100. Cash transactions are preferred and a rating of 1-20 is labelled “caution – credit at your discretion”. The club is now unable to get any credit.

Before Christmas, the club took out another loan from Barclays to cover the Investec loan. This should be of great concern to all of us. The Investec loan, for those that do not know, was borrowed against next year’s revenues.

Why this is happening is immediately obvious: the club has run a tight ship for many years, but the business plan of the Kenwright regime (asset utilisation) has hit the wall. The debt repayments from the 14 existing mortgages, in combination with declining revenues, are responsible for the current difficulties...

“This asset utilization and disposal plan that has been adopted by the board, it can’t be sustained forever can it?”

“No” came the reply.

“It’s inherently unsustainable, won’t the assets run out and the loan repayments overwhelm the clubs ability to provide sufficient funds to obtain better players?”

“We have a highly qualified finance team and a good relationship with the bank. That wouldn't be allowed to happen,” replied Robert Elstone.

That good relationship with the banks appears to be at an end. Sadly, it gets worse, according to my source. This is the “murder” that a certain Echo journalist should know all about; if he doesn’t....

The club has spent the past month trying to prove to the auditors that they have sufficient funds to continue as a going concern; that is why the accounts have been delayed. The wage bill has increased and match-day revenues are down (attendances are down to around 34,000). Phillip Green is no longer acting as guarantor for the loans that the club has taken on; he has switched his interests to West Ham for obvious reasons. The banks want a reduction in the unsecured overdraft; to achieve this, Elstone has been told to take £6-8 million off the wage bill and raise £10 million net in cash.

Moyes is unhappy with this… and with good reason, his squad is going to be smaller and a key player will be sold to raise the £10 million in the summer. Chairman, CEO and Manager have been at each other’s throats… there very nearly was a murder at Goodison this January.

It can’t continue anymore — the club is close to administration, there are two options open to the board: rebuild or sell up.

Really very worriying, i wouldnt doubt the overall alidity of that, especially in a published work.

 

[Matt Damon]

To be honest mate, it makes it doesnt make sense to me investment wise why someone would pump the level of capital we would need into a club not a full shareholding, lineing someone elses pockets, if im honest i couldnt see the likes of Mansour or Abromovich doing it which is the type of investment we would need, especially when there are less complicated alternatives in the PL for investment with beteer profiles in term sof infrastucture. Its also presumeing Woods and Kenwright are on the same page as well which is far from clear after TBH ran its course. To be honest there are a number of scenarios, i just picked one of the top of my head.

Very true about the international market, but then thats a wider market place in itself compeateing with clubs from all over the world for market share, CL is where its at and even then it can take a while to develop a profile, you only have to look at what City have blowen to get close to it - in attmept to progress and grow - to see the level of requirement that may be needed to develop further.

Just to say as well BT is bang on the money, DK was a massive oppurtuity missed.

Not trying to be pessimistic here mate, just objective and just how i see things.

I understand where you're coming from. Yes there could be one or two complications, I'm not a corporate lawyer.

However many times share holder battles have been fought and a minority who is not putting anything into a business have had court injunctions put on them. So as not to stop day to day running of the club, or otherwise. Anyone coming into Everton would no doubt have a good legal team so its an over stated concern I think.

Things appear complex from the outside, but often the complexity is over stated.


Oh and I would like to put on record that I have no time whatsoever for David O'Keefe, or his cronies. Propagating rumours that EFC is close to administration is irresponsible in the extreme. Mind I've never thought much of anything of D O'Keefe or their "sources".


Also I've already nailed my flag to the mast - Kenwright (and Co) will be selling by the summer. And I'm standing by that.

 

[Neiler]

I understand where you're coming from. Yes there could be one or two complications, I'm not a corporate lawyer.

However many times share holder battles have been fought and a minority who is not putting anything into a business have had court injunctions put on them. So as not to stop day to day running of the club, or otherwise. Anyone coming into Everton would no doubt have a good legal team so its an over stated concern I think.

Things appear complex from the outside, but often the complexity is over stated.


Oh and I would like to put on record that I have no time whatsoever for David O'Keefe, or his cronies. Propagating rumours that EFC is close to administration is irresponsible in the extreme. Mind I've never thought much of anything of D O'Keefe or their "sources".[/I]


Also I've already nailed my flag to the mast - Kenwright (and Co) will be selling by the summer. And I'm standing by that.

To be honest mate, i think we're in massive trouble, ive always been supportive of the board - for reasons i have conveyed in the past. Ive always seen progress however meagre.

Every so often you need to stop and look around and see whats happening, the last year has been awfull for us, i agree with the majority in the sense that the current regime and buissness plan has now become unsustainable and unless addressed we are edgeing closer to the brink.

Just to qualify that, i dont think we are close to admisnistration, but i think we are in a situation were we have taken massive hits, in tems of of our income and expenditure working as a dual force to really put the buissness in jepordy, where i think we are at now is that we cant afford to keep what we have, im talking about the Artetas, Rodwells, Fellainis and Baines. So the playing side will take a hit, the buissness needs capital, we have seen the low hanging fruit plucked in January - Yak, Pienaar, Vaughan, im pretty certain unless something drasticly changes one or if not more of the crowen jewls wont be here come August.

This week will tell an awfull lot, but i stand by my prdiction of a loss of 8 - 15million.

 

[cymrublue]

We're not Wrexham though. We're one of the only clubs in the league operating a financial system designed to keep the club barely afloat rather than challenge for anything.

Even the lower clubs in the division are aiming at something - Premier League survival - and invest as such.

Kenwrongs' policy is to capitalise on shrewd signings coming good to disguise how non-competitive we are.

Without Moyes' signings on a shoestring, we would without a doubt be out of this league. We're a few bad signings away from oblivion under Kenwrong.

We really can't do much worse.

your right we're not wrecsam but their is lessons we can learn,the majority of wrecsam fans stood back and attacked minority of support who relised the clubs assets where being stripped luckily the fans realised the minority where right and after a long fight they saved the club,now I'm not saying this going to happen to us but we need to be vigilant that who ever takes over has the best intrest of everton in what ever decision are made,we need kenwright and his mob gone but it has to be to the right person

 

[Robert Jarvis]

The accounts will soon be with us, which may throw some light on the club's financial position. However those accounts, what year end are they for?

 

[cymrublue]

The accounts will soon be with us, which may throw some light on the club's financial position. However those accounts, what year end are they for?

may 2010 I think,Im dreading what state them idiots in charge have got the club in

 

[davek]

To be honest mate, i think we're in massive trouble, ive always been supportive of the board - for reasons i have conveyed in the past. Ive always seen progress however meagre.

Every so often you need to stop and look around and see whats happening, the last year has been awfull for us, i agree with the majority in the sense that the current regime and buissness plan has now become unsustainable and unless addressed we are edgeing closer to the brink.

Just to qualify that, i dont think we are close to admisnistration, but i think we are in a situation were we have taken massive hits, in tems of of our income and expenditure working as a dual force to really put the buissness in jepordy, where i think we are at now is that we cant afford to keep what we have, im talking about the Artetas, Rodwells, Fellainis and Baines. So the playing side will take a hit, the buissness needs capital, we have seen the low hanging fruit plucked in January - Yak, Pienaar, Vaughan, im pretty certain unless something drasticly changes one or if not more of the crowen jewls wont be here come August.

This week will tell an awfull lot, but i stand by my prdiction of a loss of 8 - 15million.

This is 100% spot on. All the talking down of administration is head in the sand cowardice to face facts. We may not be in immediate threat of administration, but the quickening movement of the club in a certain direction is a great source of worry. When something goes down it goes down fast. It's the difference between that moment when cold water ceases to be liquid and turns to ice. In other words, it's only a matter of time before quantitative loss is transformed into something qualitative.

 

[PeterMeter]

The doomsday reports seem to be pouring in from all around. Got me just a little bit nervous as times have surely changed a bit since we last had to sell one of our 'prime assets' for mainly economic reasons, the Rooney affair. The Lescott transfer seemed more to do with good short term business sense, his value would never rise higher and I have a hard time seeing someone paying over the top money like City in the times that followed. The financial climate in general is definetely a lot worse now.

I mainly came on here to ask, since from what I've been hearing and what I myself is feeling, some honesty and transparency in the Board's dealings is what most people seem to be crying out for. But coupled with other efforts to increase the cash-flow in the club, would you as a match goer agree to raised ticket prizes as one step to increase match day revenue? I've so far been to only one game, the season-ender against Portsmouth, and my main excuse is that I live in Sweden and my work is such that the summer is usually when I can take more than a weekend off from it. But I realized that the ticket prize I payed through the official website is not really far off from prizes in Allsvenskan and season tickets for one of the clubs here is around 300 £.

I wouldn't suggest the club raise ticket prizes as things stand right now, but if you were allowed more insight into the club's dealings so you knew that the raise would add, in a well documented way, to taking the club out of debt and an increase in for example transfer funds as part of a public sustainable business plan, would you be willing?

 

[Neiler]

The doomsday reports seem to be pouring in from all around. Got me just a little bit nervous as times have surely changed a bit since we last had to sell one of our 'prime assets' for mainly economic reasons, the Rooney affair. The Lescott transfer seemed more to do with good short term business sense, his value would never rise higher and I have a hard time seeing someone paying over the top money like City in the times that followed. The financial climate in general is definetely a lot worse now.

I mainly came on here to ask, since from what I've been hearing and what I myself is feeling, some honesty and transparency in the Board's dealings is what most people seem to be crying out for. But coupled with other efforts to increase the cash-flow in the club, would you as a match goer agree to raised ticket prizes as one step to increase match day revenue? I've so far been to only one game, the season-ender against Portsmouth, and my main excuse is that I live in Sweden and my work is such that the summer is usually when I can take more than a weekend off from it. But I realized that the ticket prize I payed through the official website is not really far off from prizes in Allsvenskan and season tickets for one of the clubs here is around 300 £.

I wouldn't suggest the club raise ticket prizes as things stand right now, but if you were allowed more insight into the club's dealings so you knew that the raise would add, in a well documented way, to taking the club out of debt and an increase in for example transfer funds as part of a public sustainable business plan, would you be willing?

Problem there mate, and not to be to pessamistic, but we are already seeing falling attendences, the Chelsea game last week was a prime example, to the best of my knowledge we have sold out only one game this season, seems the club are desperate to sell tickets as it is, on the OS every week ther eplugging tickets in a big way that i havent seen in recent seasons.

In years previously gone by our average attendences gor a season we're between 38.000 and 42.000 per game, i beleive we are well down in the low thirties at the moment, despite a huge uptake on season tickets during the summer.

Again this appears to be a downwardward spiral, in terms of a revenue stream for the club. Sorry im not purposely being pessamistic, but there are massive warning signs presently.

 

[atrottel]

Really very worriying, i wouldnt doubt the overall alidity of that, especially in a published work.

Neiler, anyone can get something "published" these days. In this case, it's davek with a site sympathetic to his aims.

(That is not meant to be a comment on the views in the article - just that the fact of publication has become more "democratic" and is not, if it ever was, a validation in itself.)