The Everton Board Thread (Inc. Bill Kenwright / Blue Union)

[sheeds]

IIRC, that Jeffers business erupted twice: first time 'resolved' and then later blew up again into a crisis.

Whilst I dont doubt Jeffers' head was turned by other top clubs showing an interest, every Everton transaction during the period this clown Kenwright has been in charge comes under the suspicion that bills needed paying and moves were engineered (either with or without the connivance of players). Also, this was a period when Smith was manager. He's an underhand character as was revealed with his association with Dennis Roche; I believe he was a 'player' in the market of generating a lot of transfers through the door and negotiating with clubs he managed a cut of the book price of home grown players?

From the way youve written your almost certainly aware that The smith roach association went way back mate . Football (more so then than now) was fraught with such connections and 'associations ' & even now if one were to take it as 'relatively clean' its still a dirty business.

Without making specific allegations against smith over various transfers I do know I heard at the time that to say he didn't know about Duncan leaving was at best 'very unlikely' .

People, including Jeffers himself , can deny it but I know those who were also present at the conversations say he was advised to stay one more year here . There are only two sides of that kind of conversation and they i believe differ so we have to make our own minds up . However that was what I was being told at the time.

Like we've both said football is a messy business that runs on lies and deceit because ( as was said to me in a non-insulting way a few years ago ) of "dickheads like you who believe the stuff that's said"

 

[davek]

Never heard that about Smith?

It was a fairly well circulated bit of scuttlebutt during the period. I dont know the truth of the matter. Someone like sheeds would know I think. Smith was defo a wrongun though. He destroyed our old youth system and brought in his arl arses to replace them...whatever the motive.

 

[sheeds]

I think on the Super Kev thing you have to look at it in context, he pulled of an amazing scoring feat and at the time he was no 1 priority - that was back in the day we had no real heros to speak of, yes it was ridiculous money at the timebut in the context of what his performences earned us - its understandable, but prob not acceptable. I believe Big Dunc was on similar huge long term deal when he came back from Newcastle.

Its one of the problems with a fan running the club, but then hes damned if he does and damned if he doesnt - critised for giving big deals to players then given stick for not Pienaar for example - goes with territory i guess.

I know what your saying mate but it was an awful deal as he wasn't going to get anywhere near that anywhere else and given his age we got stuck with him . You could argue it's a fan running it ,that it was rank bad business , ' opiate for the masses' or a combination of all of the above .

Interesting that you've mentioned pienaar , I was delighted he came back but from purely a business point of view it was a car crash of a deal. Letting a deal tick down bringing his price with it , not offering the relatively small amount that would have secured the deal earlier whilst giving more to Arteta and then bringing him back for a deal bigger than he wanted in the first place for less of any future sell on value and a overall loss. We basically lent him to spurs but we paid for the privilege . If everton are to be run 'properly' we should do it 'properly' and that deal was awful . If that makes sense ?

 

[Steve Wigan]

don't tend to bother with many sites anymore, but here seems to have a concerted propaganda situation with dedicated members of the BK Militia, even some 'familiar' styles of 'alleged' ex employees...some may think cross dressing but who knows?

This is the last dregs of Kenwright's ability to impress on the sheep how cosy things are at castle Goodison, won't be long before the Wizard is unveiled I reckon, personally don't hate the man, hate what he has done, but as a person he is more pitiful than anything, that would hurt him more than being hated, pity carries desperate emotions for an actor.
The hate is reserved for the ones who carried out instructions and wilfully continue to try and dupe people they portray as like minded, just patronising and arrogant, no more. They deserve the hate.

Always interested in your opinion, Magic, and I respect your passion and knowledge of football. I don't think anyone, not even Bill thinks that things are 'cosy' at Everton, and anyone who does is living in a dream world.It still has to be said that despite everything(mostly the financial difficulties), Everton is percieved to be well run, and to be honest, in business, perception is almost everything. Thats particularly true of 'show business', and as I've said at great length before,Bill business style is all show business, even down to selling the dream('the show') to potential investors. Show business is based on lies, inuendo, half truths, and even sometimes the truth, and its the acceptable way that particular business works. Trouble is its been proved to cause loads of problems if you apply that method to running a football club. While an investor is probably prepared to lose his investment if a musical version of Robin Hood turns out to be a disaster, that same investor wants his profit out of a football club.
Not sure about your comment re actors and pity....to most actors its just another aspect of their range.(been there, done that!!) but again, you're intelligent and are entitled to your opinion, and opinions is what its all about.

 

[davek]

From the way youve written your almost certainly aware that The smith roach association went way back mate . Football (more so then than now) was fraught with such connections and 'associations ' & even now if one were to take it as 'relatively clean' its still a dirty business.

Without making specific allegations against smith over various transfers I do know I heard at the time that to say he didn't know about Duncan leaving was at best 'very unlikely' .

People, including Jeffers himself , can deny it but I know those who were also present at the conversations say he was advised to stay one more year here . There are only two sides of that kind of conversation and they i believe differ so we have to make our own minds up . However that was what I was being told at the time.

Like we've both said football is a messy business that runs on lies and deceit because ( as was said to me in a non-insulting way a few years ago ) of "dickheads like you who believe the stuff that's said"

Smith/DF - the rumour I remember was Johnson told Smith a day or so before the midweek match DF's departure was announced after with an acceptance on his part that it was another casualty of the 'overspend' of the initial splurge in the transfer market Smith went on. Maybe the wounded reaction by Smith was one organised with others on the board like Kenwright looking to oust Johnson. Who knows.

Jeffers: tbh, I wouldn't blame him getting out with the reality of the baneful Smith/Knox regime of terror in full swing.

 

[Neiler]

I know what your saying mate but it was an awful deal as he wasn't going to get anywhere near that anywhere else and given his age we got stuck with him . You could argue it's a fan running it ,that it was rank bad business , ' opiate for the masses' or a combination of all of the above .

Interesting that you've mentioned pienaar , I was delighted he came back but from purely a business point of view it was a car crash of a deal. Letting a deal tick down bringing his price with it , not offering the relatively small amount that would have secured the deal earlier whilst giving more to Arteta and then bringing him back for a deal bigger than he wanted in the first place for less of any future sell on value and a overall loss. We basically lent him to spurs but we paid for the privilege . If everton are to be run 'properly' we should do it 'properly' and that deal was awful . If that makes sense ?

Pretty much cant argue with that mate, great post!

 

[magicjuan]

Always interested in your opinion, Magic, and I respect your passion and knowledge of football. I don't think anyone, not even Bill thinks that things are 'cosy' at Everton, and anyone who does is living in a dream world.It still has to be said that despite everything(mostly the financial difficulties), Everton is percieved to be well run, and to be honest, in business, perception is almost everything. Thats particularly true of 'show business', and as I've said at great length before,Bill business style is all show business, even down to selling the dream('the show') to potential investors. Show business is based on lies, inuendo, half truths, and even sometimes the truth, and its the acceptable way that particular business works. Trouble is its been proved to cause loads of problems if you apply that method to running a football club. While an investor is probably prepared to lose his investment if a musical version of Robin Hood turns out to be a disaster, that same investor wants his profit out of a football club.
Not sure about your comment re actors and pity....to most actors its just another aspect of their range.(been there, done that!!) but again, you're intelligent and are entitled to your opinion, and opinions is what its all about.

Thanks Steve, I reckon the key word in your post is 'percieved', that is the illusion as you rightly say of 'show business', how to get your audience, wether that is the paying mug punters or the media, to believe the image, it is how religion has thrived for thousands of years. People buy into a perception of a product, brand loyalty is played upon, but where Kenwright has impeccably erred is managing to erode brand loyalty in of all things the support of a football club. That is no mean feat.

Most genuine football supporters have one team only, that has changed somewhat recently, but I believe when, or if, the balance tips away from that to the Chelski/City even R/S model of jumping glory hunters, then the game is irretrievably gone forever.

Everton as we would all believe has an overwhelming majority, I would say in the 90% plus range, of unerring loyal support, in all honesty there is very little glory in supporting us, and to have to go on some survey highlighting 'happy with the clubs performance' support models shows there are severe cracks that the board are well aware of.

I genuinely believe Bill is calling in as many favours as he has left. He doesn't have the best team, especially PR people around him, and that is why all his rhetoric is found out easily, hence the pitiful allusion I mentioned. He doesn't look a well man to me, I would suggest the stress of the situation is getting to him, and by situation I mean the dependency he has upon others to retain what position or dignity he has left, none of which is under his own control.

For his own sake and health he should hurry along, the last thing I could stomach is a martyrdom situation regarding Bill Kenwright, there would be beacons lit along Crosby beach FFS.

He is at his wits end now, like a lot of us. There is a karmic element to that. This is one of the reasons I think Moyes has stalled, I reckon he thinks Bill is a busted flush too, so is playing the game accordingly.

Bill's had time to deal with the situation, I think his hand is being forced now, that is where we enter completely unchartered or uncontrollable situations, these are the times we all worried about, times that could, with some willing, have been avoided some years ago.

 

[D410]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/ever...52-33087025/2/#sitelife-commentsWidget-bottom

Has John Thompson gone mad bet Gregg did a double take when he saw the headline got signed off....well the KEIOC thing will be here soon I hope.

 

[magicjuan]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/ever...52-33087025/2/#sitelife-commentsWidget-bottom

Has John Thompson gone mad bet Gregg did a double take when he saw the headline got signed off....well the KEIOC thing will be here soon I hope.

Just read that, seems a simple message. Time to **** or get off the pot for Everton fc I think...

 

[Dell Boy]

Selling Jeffers was good business.

Spinning the deal in terms of PR is standard practice for any football club let alone business anywhere in the world.

Fans ignorance of the way a business works is astonishing.

Jeffers got too big for his boots. The club needed the cash. Surely anyone could see it is in the club's interest to sell for as much as possible and then spin it to fans. There is no such thing as 100% honesty in professional football.

It's been going on at Everton - and all clubs - through the 70s and 80s.

It is business plain and simple. So what if Jeffers was forced out? A board must make a decision as to what for the club and to hell with the rest.


And Jeffers subsequent career and off the field actions have shown that selling him for £8m was great business.

Clap, clap.

 

[Jags..class]

Selling Jeffers was good business.

Spinning the deal in terms of PR is standard practice for any football club let alone business anywhere in the world.

Fans ignorance of the way a business works is astonishing.

Jeffers got too big for his boots. The club needed the cash. Surely anyone could see it is in the club's interest to sell for as much as possible and then spin it to fans. There is no such thing as 100% honesty in professional football.

It's been going on at Everton - and all clubs - through the 70s and 80s.

It is business plain and simple. So what if Jeffers was forced out? A board must make a decision as to what for the club and to hell with the rest.


And Jeffers subsequent career and off the field actions have shown that selling him for £8m was great business.

Clap, clap.

Good post. It was great business getting 8 million for Jeffers, but every club had done bad and good transfers. hate the way our fans go on about players being forced out, its a business at the end of the day and most players push the move themselves.

 

[sheeds]

Selling Jeffers was good business.

Spinning the deal in terms of PR is standard practice for any football club let alone business anywhere in the world.

Fans ignorance of the way a business works is astonishing.

Jeffers got too big for his boots. The club needed the cash. Surely anyone could see it is in the club's interest to sell for as much as possible and then spin it to fans. There is no such thing as 100% honesty in professional football.

It's been going on at Everton - and all clubs - through the 70s and 80s.

It is business plain and simple. So what if Jeffers was forced out? A board must make a decision as to what for the club and to hell with the rest.


And Jeffers subsequent career and off the field actions have shown that selling him for £8m was great business.

Clap, clap.

Not that it matters and those close to franny may disagree but others involved in that deal (and I don't mean everton ) are adamant he wasn't .

Where your spot on though is clubs lie with a frequency that'd stagger the average footy fan, that doesn't make it right though.

 

[Steve Wigan]

Thanks Steve, I reckon the key word in your post is 'percieved', that is the illusion as you rightly say of 'show business', how to get your audience, wether that is the paying mug punters or the media, to believe the image, it is how religion has thrived for thousands of years. People buy into a perception of a product, brand loyalty is played upon, but where Kenwright has impeccably erred is managing to erode brand loyalty in of all things the support of a football club. That is no mean feat.

Most genuine football supporters have one team only, that has changed somewhat recently, but I believe when, or if, the balance tips away from that to the Chelski/City even R/S model of jumping glory hunters, then the game is irretrievably gone forever.

Everton as we would all believe has an overwhelming majority, I would say in the 90% plus range, of unerring loyal support, in all honesty there is very little glory in supporting us, and to have to go on some survey highlighting 'happy with the clubs performance' support models shows there are severe cracks that the board are well aware of.

I genuinely believe Bill is calling in as many favours as he has left. He doesn't have the best team, especially PR people around him, and that is why all his rhetoric is found out easily, hence the pitiful allusion I mentioned. He doesn't look a well man to me, I would suggest the stress of the situation is getting to him, and by situation I mean the dependency he has upon others to retain what position or dignity he has left, none of which is under his own control.

For his own sake and health he should hurry along, the last thing I could stomach is a martyrdom situation regarding Bill Kenwright, there would be beacons lit along Crosby beach FFS.

He is at his wits end now, like a lot of us. There is a karmic element to that. This is one of the reasons I think Moyes has stalled, I reckon he thinks Bill is a busted flush too, so is playing the game accordingly.

Bill's had time to deal with the situation, I think his hand is being forced now, that is where we enter completely unchartered or uncontrollable situations, these are the times we all worried about, times that could, with some willing, have been avoided some years ago.

Thanks for that Magic. I think we both see the 'problem' with Bill....but can you explain why you say he has 'managed to erode brand loyalty' and then later say that Everton have 90% loyal support ? I think you'll find that at most football clubs there is a disenchanted faction...and they have all become more vociferous since the dawn of t'internet. The banter which used to happen in the pubs(pubs...remember them?), is now more measured and at the same time more passionate. Everyones a writer all of a sudden !! I think the 'truth'(!) with regard to Bill Kenwright is somewhere between the two extremes...he is neither the messiah...the man who saved the club, nor is he insane, the worlds greatest con man, a moron, out to destroy Everton, an imbecile, or the Devil on Earth. He has been the subject of all the above opinions and more over the last dozen or so years, but they are just opinions...factually he is not gay(as if it would matter, which it doesn't), nor is he a 'failed actor'. A failed actor does not have dozens of TV roles and West End roles to his name then go on to produce feature movies and, in the words of a senior executive at One Nation, 'single handedly save provincial live theatre in Britain'.
Problem is, none of the above qualifies him to run a football club, because the terms of reference are different, and different criteria apply to the job. In 1999 he was the only person really interested enough in 'taking over' at Everton, but that was a long time ago.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Quaint showbiz perceptions etc etc don't quite cut it for the views I have of Bill's financial dealings at this club.

Doesn't correspond with banning AGM's, character assassinations of business partners, media manipulation, briefing against fans, seeking to move the club to a box in a hole, and buying up shares for the sky generated sale of the century without investing sweet FA to generate that mark up.

Good try though Steve.

 

[Steve Wigan]

Quaint showbiz perceptions etc etc don't quite cut it for the views I have of Bill's financial dealings at this club.

Doesn't correspond with banning AGM's, character assassinations of business partners, media manipulation, briefing against fans, seeking to move the club to a box in a hole, and buying up shares for the sky generated sale of the century without investing sweet FA to generate that mark up.

Good try though Steve.

Ah Its Mr Mystery ! Theres nothing 'quaint' about the theatre business....one of the toughest to be in....and most of the stuff in your second paragraph is what goes on in show business !

But it is difficult to make the same 'system' work in the business of football.