The Everton Board Thread

[BNJ1878]

use ill gotten gains to buy an asset, then legitimately sell that asset. It’s not hard to understand and theres every chance it was happening at Everton.

You're really not grasping it.

The money maybe morally 'Ill gotten gains,' but until the war in Ukraine he was free to spend it all over the world without any authorities batting an eyelid.

When he invested in Arsenal was that money laundering? When he bought that massive house in Surrey was that money laundering? When he spent 600 mil on a yacht, was that?

The answer to all 3 is no.

 

[Dixieslaces]

You're really not grasping it.

The money maybe morally 'Ill gotten gains,' but until the war in Ukraine he was free to spend it all over the world without any authorities batting an eyelid.

When he invested in Arsenal was that money laundering? When he bought that massive house in Surrey was that money laundering? When he spent 600 mil on a yacht, was that?

The answer to all 3 is no.

in the uk this applies:

In UK law money laundering is defined in the Proceeds of Crimes Act 2002 (POCA) part 7, and includes “all forms of handling or possessing criminal property, including possessing the proceeds of one's own crime, and facilitating any handling or possession of criminal property”

Its a narrower scope in some countries.

But in reality the purchasing of anything can be used to conceal Money Laundering, so effectively if they purchase property, Vehicles or anything really and they are using money from illegitimate sources and it matters not how long they wait to "Clean" that money then it can be classed as Money Laundering.

Not saying, here, that it has taken place but its not as black and white as one may think.

Layering, Placement etc are all methods of hiding sources of illegal activities.

 

[4737carlin]

in the uk this applies:

In UK law money laundering is defined in the Proceeds of Crimes Act 2002 (POCA) part 7, and includes “all forms of handling or possessing criminal property, including possessing the proceeds of one's own crime, and facilitating any handling or possession of criminal property”

Its a narrower scope in some countries.

But in reality the purchasing of anything can be used to conceal Money Laundering, so effectively if they purchase property, Vehicles or anything really and they are using money from illegitimate sources and it matters not how long they wait to "Clean" that money then it can be classed as Money Laundering.

Not saying, here, that it has taken place but its not as black and white as one may think.

Layering, Placement etc are all methods of hiding sources of illegal activities.

Like you buy a house with dirty money, then sell it later the money you get from the sale is now clean.

 

[BNJ1878]

in the uk this applies:

In UK law money laundering is defined in the Proceeds of Crimes Act 2002 (POCA) part 7, and includes “all forms of handling or possessing criminal property, including possessing the proceeds of one's own crime, and facilitating any handling or possession of criminal property”

Its a narrower scope in some countries.

But in reality the purchasing of anything can be used to conceal Money Laundering, so effectively if they purchase property, Vehicles or anything really and they are using money from illegitimate sources and it matters not how long they wait to "Clean" that money then it can be classed as Money Laundering.

Not saying, here, that it has taken place but its not as black and white as one may think.

Layering, Placement etc are all methods of hiding sources of illegal activities.

I'm not disputing any of that, it's 100% correct.



The fact is, when Usmanov may/may not have been helping to fund Everton he had vast wealth obtained 'legitimately' with regard to international banking rules and regs.

He had absolutely no need to launder money through Everton.

People are barking at the moon if they think he was.

 

[BNJ1878]

Like you buy a house with dirty money, then sell it later the money you get from the sale is now clean.

Correct, but when he was rumoured to be involved with Everton his money wasn't legally 'dirty'

Morally dirty? Yeah.

Welcomed in the UK until a couple of months pre Ukraine invasion? Undoubtedly.

Don't Confuse the two.

 

[COYBL25]

I'm not disputing any of that, it's 100% correct.



The fact is, when Usmanov may/may not have been helping to fund Everton he had vast wealth obtained 'legitimately' with regard to international banking rules and regs.

He had absolutely no need to launder money through Everton.

People are barking at the moon if they think he was.

However, not one single oligarch, wasn`t paying some form of kick back to Putin.

The ones who didn`t fell out of windows, died of poisoning or were involved in fatal car accidents.

So by default, we were paying kick backs to Putin and laundering money for him.

 

[BNJ1878]

However, not one single oligarch, wasn`t paying some form of kick back to Putin.

The ones who didn`t fell out of windows, died of poisoning or were involved in fatal car accidents.

So by default, we were paying kick backs to Putin and laundering money for him.

It's a stretch, but whatever makes you happy I guess.

Tell me, how much money has Usmanov/Moshiri taken OUT of Everton to give to Putin?

My theory? It was never about money laundering. It was a petulant child annoyed he couldn't gain control of Arsenal so wanted to take over a potential future rival out of spite.

It failed because his bagman trusted incompetence already in situ and they have pissed it all away. I'm amazed novichok hasn't made an appearance tbh.

 

[Ruairi77]

You're really not grasping it.

The money maybe morally 'Ill gotten gains,' but until the war in Ukraine he was free to spend it all over the world without any authorities batting an eyelid.

When he invested in Arsenal was that money laundering? When he bought that massive house in Surrey was that money laundering? When he spent 600 mil on a yacht, was that?

The answer to all 3 is no.

I think I'm being pretty clear here.
There's no evidence of money laundering. No one has been charged or is being investigated to the best of my knowledge.
But given the history of the oligarchs and the shady way they have conducted business over the last 30 years, and the way he invested in Everton (and Arsenal) it's reasonable to think that the whole process might not be 100% above board.
The oligarchs have gone out of their way to invest in western assets, getting a huge sum of money out of Russia.
It's naive of you to think it's all above board.

 

[COYBL25]

It's a stretch, but whatever makes you happy I guess.

Tell me, how much money has Usmanov/Moshiri taken OUT of Everton to give to Putin?

My theory? It was never about money laundering. It was a petulant child annoyed he couldn't gain control of Arsenal so wanted to take over a potential future rival out of spite.

It failed because his bagman trusted incompetence already in situ and they have pissed it all away. I'm amazed novichok hasn't made an appearance tbh.

Read the book - Killer in the Kremlin, by the ex Panorama journo, John Sweeney and you`ll change your mind on that one.

 

[BNJ1878]

I think I'm being pretty clear here.
There's no evidence of money laundering. No one has been charged or is being investigated to the best of my knowledge.
But given the history of the oligarchs and the shady way they have conducted business over the last 30 years, and the way he invested in Everton (and Arsenal) it's reasonable to think that the whole process might not be 100% above board.
The oligarchs have gone out of their way to invest in western assets, getting a huge sum of money out of Russia.
It's naive of you to think it's all above board.

I haven't once said its squeaky clean.

But the spending on Everton, whoever made it.... Isn't money laundering. Never has been.

 

[BNJ1878]

Read the book - Killer in the Kremlin, by the ex Panorama journo, John Sweeney and you`ll change your mind on that one.

I really won't.

That's not the argument being made here.

 

[Martin Alvito]

I really won't.

That's not the argument being made here.

You may be underestimating the amount of 'interesting accounting' that goes on within the privatized former Soviet state-owned enterprises. Usmanov did six years in prison for fraud and embezzlement in the 1980s.

 

[Ruairi77]

I haven't once said its squeaky clean.

But the spending on Everton, whoever made it.... Isn't money laundering. Never has been.

I'm not ruling out the possibility.
It's also possibly tax fraud.
It's also possibly in breach of numerous competition laws.
It's also possibly breaching Premier League rules.

And likely most clubs are at it.

 

[Curtis]

I think I'm being pretty clear here.
There's no evidence of money laundering. No one has been charged or is being investigated to the best of my knowledge.
But given the history of the oligarchs and the shady way they have conducted business over the last 30 years, and the way he invested in Everton (and Arsenal) it's reasonable to think that the whole process might not be 100% above board.
The oligarchs have gone out of their way to invest in western assets, getting a huge sum of money out of Russia.
It's naive of you to think it's all above board.

If anything it's more sports washing than actually financial laundering even there is seedy stuff afoot, you think any of Chelsea fans care that abramonvich was best friends with Putin? He got his hobby and the Chelsea fans got trophies it's very transactional but I think they would launder funds through a different enterprise

 

[Billy Dean]

Sanctioning an Oligarch Is Not So Easy: Why the Money Trail of Alisher Usmanov, One of Russia’s Wealthiest Men, Is Difficult to Follow

Alisher Usmanov, who has been closely tied to top Russian leaders, hides behind trusts, secretive offshore companies, Swiss bank accounts, and his family members to detach his name from his billions.

www.occrp.org