The Friedkin Group reaches agreement to buy Everton

[Lob]

if you compared Pellegrini’s points average at City to Dyche’s then the difference would also be stark but no one would want Pellegrini. A better comparison would be Mourinho’s average points at Spurs v Dyche at Everton.

The comparison was based purely on their full record of Premier League games regardless of what clubs. The only accurate way to do it really. Anything else could be deemed as cherry picking really.

 

[Neiler]

It is a weird one with Dyche. He’s clearly an intelligent and articulate guy in his interviews and press conferences (despite the business style wording he uses) yet despite the environmental challenges (and there were environmental challenges), he had a decent season points wide in the final reckoning at 48 points.

During that same period he also had that horrid run and the fact he seems to be ideologically pre disposed to a certain profile of football (could be due to budgetary constraints) and at times appears to be unremovable from his in game managerial philosophy. Subs late in games, not very proactive.

In terms of a like for like performance vs Mourinho yes always start with the qualitative data, the hard, cold facts and then there has to be that recontextualisation of performance by discussing those environmental factors as you say. The difficulty despite that is twofold really. Firstly we don’t know all of the information, only public domain information and secondly, no one really knows what the differential in points should be even with those, so you never really know if Dyche’s performance on a pound for pound performance was comparable or even favourable.

It’s like a ring magazine’s no 1 fighter in boxing….comparing different weight classes really is never easy.

Good post mate. If i was on a different side of the debate, i would have went to Inter and Porto - because he really pulled it out of the bag in both places with more limited resources! Would have been a more illustrative example of the points the lads were trying to make.

I think you can draw parallels in approach between Dyche and Mourhino, i think both like solid and direct football, quick early ball when you can - whether thats direct, or through getting up the pitch quick. I also think both are pragmatists and will wholly compromise to have substance over style. Its probably the reason - why familiarity breeds contempt with both after a while at clubs.

I think Dyche has at times suffered from a bit of a crisis of confidence here, i think he can be sensitive and i think sometimes - he struggles with the "can he do it at a bigger club" insecurity which i think influences his decisions and i think at time that hasn't been helpful in a tricky job like we have been. Many will never love him, but he will always be respected here. Despite the parallels Mourhino would be accepted because he is a "name" and we have a bit of an insecurity our selves as wanting to be seen as "big" and relevant that sometimes blinds us to realities.

We have to be very careful, because as a fan base we've willed managers out the door in the past in the pursuit of stylistic Nirvana probably based on our own insecurity- and lived to regret it as weve tumbled down the league

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

The comparison was based purely on their full record of Premier League games regardless of what clubs. The only accurate way to do it really. Anything else could be deemed as cherry picking really.

Cherry picking or trying to produce a more accurate comparison. More data doesn’t necessarily increase accuracy if it is old. That’s a very dumb approach to stats. Everton points average in the premier league is probably far higher than Newcastle’s but so by your logic Everton are likely to get more points than them this season.

 

[evertondotcom]

Will you bet your GOT account on it?

If there's a deal agreed then it's 100% and there's no backing out once it's signed, which you are indicating it is.

I haven’t said it’s signed. I said there’s a place in place for a CF because there is. It’s dependant on the Portuguese lump leaving

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

Good post mate. If i was on a different side of the debate, i would have went to Inter and Porto - because he really pulled it out of the bag in both places with more limited resources! Would have been a more illustrative example of the points the lads were trying to make.

I think you can draw parallels in approach between Dyche and Mourhino, i think both like solid and direct football, quick early ball when you can - whether that direct, or through getting up the pitch quick. I also think both are pragmatists and will wholly wholly compromise substance over style. Its probably the reason - why familiarity breed contempt with both after a while at clubs.

I think Dyche has at times suffered from a bit of a crisis of confidence here, i think he can be sensitive and i think sometimes - he struggles with the "can he di it at a bigger club" insecurity which think influences his decisions and i think at time that hasn't been helpful in a tricky job like we have been. Many will never love him, but he will always be respected here.

We have to be very careful, because as a fan base we've willed managers out the door in the past in the pursuit of stylistic Nirvana probably based on our own insecurity- and lived to regret it as weve tumbled down the league

Agree with this. Stability and long term planning are what we should focus on. I think Mourihno could potentially destroy us because he is a toxic erratic character, plays dire football, would cost a fortune and would spend a lot in a short term way. He’d be similar to Ancelloti without the charm and charisma.

 

[Blue peter]

Good post mate. If i was on a different side of the debate, i would have went to Inter and Porto - because he really pulled it out of the bag in both places with more limited resources! Would have been a more illustrative example of the points the lads were trying to make.

I think you can draw parallels in approach between Dyche and Mourhino, i think both like solid and direct football, quick early ball when you can - whether thats direct, or through getting up the pitch quick. I also think both are pragmatists and will wholly compromise to have substance over style. Its probably the reason - why familiarity breeds contempt with both after a while at clubs.

I think Dyche has at times suffered from a bit of a crisis of confidence here, i think he can be sensitive and i think sometimes - he struggles with the "can he di it at a bigger club" insecurity which think influences his decisions and i think at time that hasn't been helpful in a tricky job like we have been. Many will never love him, but he will always be respected here.

We have to be very careful, because as a fan base we've willed managers out the door in the past in the pursuit of stylistic Nirvana probably based on our own insecurity- and lived to regret it as weve tumbled down the league

That’s why I have some sympathy with the view that it’s not necessarily been always just the manager as we know the club has been a madhouse as evidenced by the removal of the Board and the deductions last season. Theres also been three different vested parties trying to sign their own players through relationships with agents ext they have fostered e,g, the DoF, BK & FM camps and that’s without power seeking managers bypassing the DoF to go straight to FM (Benitez). Due to this and the manager churn, our squad has resembled a jigsaw box of players where none of the pieces fit. We do still have to look at the manager in isolation though. My concern is at times his selections but mainly his 90 minute performance. Mourinho definitely didn’t have that issue, he was very proactive in his subs.

When you consider the career trajectory of the managers that have been and gone (whether successful or not), they’ve not been massive successes but they have been moderately competent in their subsequent roles (except Koeman at Barca) - I think as supporters we possibly are demanding now because our patience has worn thin after 30 years. It’s just a tough situation to be in.

Everyone is pinning their hopes on TFG, but there will be massive bumps along the road with them. At this stage I’d have more confidence in them getting our commercial performance up to roughly where it should be than the footballing side simply because I think their background shows their decent at commercialising their assets but this is a different league so they will need to put in the right structure to get the footballing side of it right.

 

[teppic]

Will you bet your GOT account on it?

If there's a deal agreed then it's 100% and there's no backing out once it's signed, which you are indicating it is.

Can't we take this sort of info with a pinch of salt in a good humoured way? I really dislike the way this forum is so aggressive over people who may have stumbled across info.

A true story: I once lived in Korea and stumbled across some info on a night out that Lee Dong Gook was about to sign for Middlesbrough. I joined a Boro forum and on my first post let them know. Every single poster was really excited and I didn't get any abuse. I was having some beers with a friend of a friend of the agent. A very tenuous link. And when Lee signed for Boro the forum clubbed together and bought me a Boro shirt. The blue away naturally. I've lost the point of this actually, so I'll stop here. Oh yeah. Be nice guys. Even if you don't believe someone, it might just be that he was on the lash with a mate of a mate of the agent and the info is bang on accurate.

Who am I kidding? Pitchforks lads!

 

[Exeter_Gently]

Can't we take this sort of info with a pinch of salt in a good humoured way? I really dislike the way this forum is so aggressive over people who may have stumbled across info.

A true story: I once lived in Korea and stumbled across some info on a night out that Lee Dong Gook was about to sign for Middlesbrough. I joined a Boro forum and on my first post let them know. Every single poster was really excited and I didn't get any abuse. I was having some beers with a friend of a friend of the agent. A very tenuous link. And when Lee signed for Boro the forum clubbed together and bought me a Boro shirt. The blue away naturally. I've lost the point of this actually, so I'll stop here. Oh yeah. Be nice guys. Even if you don't believe someone, it might just be that he was on the lash with a mate of a mate of the agent and the info is bang on accurate.

Who am I kidding? Pitchforks lads!

People proper take it heart.

They hate to think they're not on the inside and not privy to abit of gossip.

Wild really.

 

[Marius57]

He wouldn’t, he would be absolutely toxic.

Which is one of the reasons I don’t want him here. But I was talking results wise. He is a better manager. That’s why he gets the top jobs.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

He wouldn’t, he would be absolutely toxic.

How would it be toxic?

I keep seeing people mentioning it potentially being toxic but without explaining why.

 

[brieverton]

Mourinho wants ready made solutions and established players. I don't think he would get the sort of budget needed for that here.

The manager appointment should be driven by the DoF, no owner will leave that entirely to them but it should be done with as minimal interference as possible.

Of course if a big name becomes available then they force their way into contention but the DoF should be backed to produce a shortlist of candidates.

Mourinho would be like Koeman working with a DoF. I recall Koeman openly speaking about Sigurdsson when he was still at Swansea and saying it was Steve Walshs responsibility to ensure we got him. He was doing Swansea's job for them. Every utterance added a couple million to the fee. We need to avoid that way of doing business. There needs to be collaboration through all levels. With Mourinho, every single thing is someone else's fault.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

How would it be toxic?

I keep seeing people mentioning it potentially being toxic but without explaining why.

Falls out with everyone around him ultimately and acts like a complete clown on the touch line. He’s embarrassing.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

Which is one of the reasons I don’t want him here. But I was talking results wise. He is a better manager. That’s why he gets the top jobs.

I don’t think there is any evidence he would do a better job that Dyche. I don’t think he has succeeded anywhere for a long time.

 

[Neiler]

That’s why I have some sympathy with the view that it’s not necessarily been always just the manager as we know the club has been a madhouse as evidenced by the removal of the Board and the deductions last season. Theres also been three different vested parties trying to sign their own players through relationships with agents ext they have fostered e,g, the DoF, BK & FM camps and that’s without power seeking managers bypassing the DoF to go straight to FM (Benitez). Due to this and the manager churn, our squad has resembled a jigsaw box of players where none of the pieces fit. We do still have to look at the manager in isolation though. My concern is at times his selections but mainly his 90 minute performance. Mourinho definitely didn’t have that issue, he was very proactive in his subs.

When you consider the career trajectory of the managers that have been and gone (whether successful or not), they’ve not been massive successes but they have been moderately competent in their subsequent roles (except Koeman at Barca) - I think as supporters we possibly are demanding now because our patience has worn thin after 30 years. It’s just a tough situation to be in.

Everyone is pinning their hopes on TFG, but there will be massive bumps along the road with them. At this stage I’d have more confidence in them getting our commercial performance up to roughly where it should be than the footballing side simply because I think their background shows their decent at commercialising their assets but this is a different league so they will need to put in the right structure to get the footballing side of it right.

Another excellent post mate and agree 100% if there was ever an example of how bad governance effected the culture of an organization it is at Everton and its been bourne out in every outcome from financial performance, to recruitment, to cohesion, manager churn and overall jeopardy of our position in the league.

On Dyche i give him a lot of allowance operating in the above scope, limited resources with a small limited squad - and the existential PL deductions last season and walking in to a hopeless cause the year before. Done terrifically well in my opinion. I do think we look at this season with a different lense, ive set the bar at between 10th and 12th myself because i think we have brought players in and he has more live squad options. Based on what he did last year i think that's a relatively reasonable expectation of judging incremental progress.

I think we've been inpatient with managers in a large part and weve chased it - there was some we should have stuck with at key points in hindsight if nothing else then just marginal gains or a steady foot on the ladder to regroup. We wanted everything, to quick all at once and all it led to what was instability and a lack of cohesion. Those lessons need to be learned as we head forward under a different administration. As much by us as fans than anyone.

I have the same analysis as the TFG if im being objective, i think they will recover the club commercially and financially and i think they will invest in the club as well- i haven't been inspired by some of the choices they have made in the footballing dept, at Roma - more in terms of committing to a plan and philosophy and backing that, my take is its been a bit scatter gun. Lacking that structure and plan as you say.

That's why Mourhino - while it would be entertaining - would worry me - he has a shelf life of a season or two, we need something more stable then that with a plan and clear goal in mind that we can work toward incrementally with everyone humming in cohesion.

 

[jazzy]

How about when he won the champions league with porto what was his spend like compared to the sides he was competing with then ?

Again I’ll say it I’m not cheerleading for him to get the Everton job but does feel like there is some revisionism going on .

Come on Harry , how long ago was that ? 2004 - 20 years ago.

I actually saw Porto at Madrid in the CL that season and they were fantastic, as was Mourinho.

But like Porto he isn't that great any more.