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The Moment You Knew He Had Failed...

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chrismpw said:
Never claimed he was - but he's clearly intelligent and intelligent people learn to do better.

Alec Ferguson was another manager fans wanted out before he came good ... granted these were back in the days before fans had about 1 month of patience before their social media echo chambers whip them into a hysteria.
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excellent post...the incontinence around rational sensibility, wrought by 'social media echo chambers' has mestasized into some terrible cancer. Bovine Spongioform Encepholapathy is its closest medical analogy.
 
Ron manager said:
The 2 biggies are capitulating to the RS (not just losing but trouser soiling before stepping on the pitch) and trying to emulate Wenger when he had a second team almost good enough to win trophies. Our second stringers shouldn't see the light of day unless first teamers are in a coma.

I think only Sam avoided those errors ..... might be wrong of course
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Ffs, Sam refused to play anything worth watching
 

I do not think he has failed completely, some things have not worked out and due to him. Problem has been the signing of certain players who have not been good and the poor performance of those who have been here a while - Gordon, Gray. Injuries to DCL has not helped either his fitness was needed to rely on him.
 
Drico said:
I was only 11. I didn't really see things that way then.

I do recall being deeply unimpressed with Colin Harvey, though. That 6-2 rout at Villa wasn't so much about him, more the "moment" I knew the great Everton of my early teens was over.
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That was the moment i think everyone knew that the show was over.

There was talk about us being title contenders before that game as well. It was from that point onwards that the whole thing (Everton being a force in football) started to unravel really.
 

Ian said:
I disagree. What's failed is the repeated recruitment of another guy who has no track record of improving teams.
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He's been a manager for what, 5 years? Chelsea, Derby and Us? Improvement is a gradual process and it's so many players in need.
 
Well with Frank Lampard, it was when we lost twice in a week to Bournemouth, that was the moment I knew he had failed and would only last a few more games. I was sad to see him go, but it just wasn't working. Oh sorry, I meant to post this at the start of February 2023.
 
Drico said:
As an Evertonian of 42 years, I have often looked back at managers and other officials at Everton and tried to pinpoint the moment I realised that they had failed and would not make a success of the role they were in.

In my experience, from my perspective, the club usually acts only later than this moment. For example, I "knew" Marcel Brands would not be a success when Everton signed Alex Iwobi. Sure, he's had three decent months, but he has largely been a disastrous waste of money. Arsenal fans are still laughing...

With Roberto, it was the signing of Aiden McGeady. This summed up the recklessness of Martinez: indulging an indisciplined, flaky, flashy luxury player (well, if you shop for luxury in Aldi). As an Irishman, I knew in my bones that this was a fatal error. Roberto's "flash in the pan" made flesh. Still, at that point, Roberto was still in the ascendancy. A 3-0 hammering at Southampton later that year was my moment of confirmation.

With Moyes, it was the cup defeat to Reading when only Man City - who we regularly schooled at the time - remained a real live threat in the competition. Blew his chance.

The Watford hammering under Benitez shook me. For all the controversy of his appointment, he started well, but the wheels came off spectacularly and, given the atmosphere around the club, I felt, deep down, that there was no coming back from that - even if he simply went on to dig his own grave afterwards.

As for Frank, I never rated him. But he earned his shot at proving me wrong at the very end of last season. He oversaw an escape that Houdini would have been proud of - even if, like Harry, he had tied himself in knots first. And his "moment"? Well, despite my scepticism of his abilities, it was only the 3-0 hiding at Bournemouth that completely convinced me that he had passed the point of return. Matter of time now.

Thelwell, for now, hasn't reached that "point". Here's hoping he doesn't.

When did you think "Such and Such" was a busted flush?
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For me it was the end for Martinez when the players at the FAC semi against United decided at HT to ignore Martinez's tactics for the second half. The outcome was a 45 minutes when we totally outplayed the opposition, scored, missed a penalty - only of course, because this is Everton, to lose in the last minute.
 
tonka1878 said:
He's been a manager for what, 5 years? Chelsea, Derby and Us? Improvement is a gradual process and it's so many players in need.
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It doesn't always take a long time to improve standards. Ten Hag and Emery have done it within weeks.

There are loads of examples of managers who have improved more than one team significantly within a few months. Some of those guys were available and at least one said he would have come (Favre).

If you're right, and we must expect a long wait before seeing any improvement from a new manager, then it's a terrible idea to wait until Feb/March to see if things get better once the imaginary striker arrives. A new guy would justifiably ask what we expected in a few weeks.

The argument that we shouldn't expect better because he's a relative rookie doesn't sound like a strong reason to keep him to me.
 

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