The Unholy Trinity

[mkrudden]

It’s not a thread about other players though. There’s loads of threads criticising everyone. My gripe and the subject of this thread are three midfielders that I believe deserve criticism due to their profile. I can easily criticise everyone but I’m trying to be patient with young players and new signings and not get on their back immediately after one bad performance. As I said though these are three international players in their prime with experience in the prem and at Everton and they have served up over a year or relegation form. People might not like their favourites being called out but this is the truth. 1 win in 17 games when the three of them have played in midfield.

Yes you are isolating those three but to make a point about the TEAM / SQUAD and their ability to get results.

And you say "people don't like their favourites being called out" but you're diluting that point by NOT calling out others. You actively don't like the three you've mentioned and are trying to shoe horn justification via stats and omissions of things your eyes can tell you.

E.g.

Stats will tell you that your trio were part of the team who lost.

Your eyes will tell you that has Tosun and Niasse been at the races, there is a very reasonable assertion that we would have scored more than West Ham and won.

 

[Raino85]

He did at Porto and ive seen him and Moutinho do it for Wolves, so yes. He's playing an interesting role this season popping up everywhere and im looking forward to see more of him.
.

Im sorry mate, but he dosent do that at wolves, he does the complete opposite.
With Wolves having the 3 at the back it is the centre halves responsibility to bring the ball out (mostly Coady) and step into midfield with it, Moutinho's & Neves' jobs are to get onto the ball in positions just over the halfwayline and move that ball at pace and quickly, using there range to spread the play, they dont use attacking midfielders and the dont use defensinve midfielders who go deep to collect the ball.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Yes you are isolating those three but to make a point about the TEAM / SQUAD and their ability to get results.

And you say "people don't like their favourites being called out" but you're diluting that point by NOT calling out others. You actively don't like the three you've mentioned and are trying to shoe horn justification via stats and omissions of things your eyes can tell you.

E.g.

Stats will tell you that your trio were part of the team who lost.

Your eyes will tell you that has Tosun and Niasse been at the races, there is a very reasonable assertion that we would have scored more than West Ham and won.

As with everything to do with Roberto Martinez I think you are wrong MK.

 

[Raino85]

It’s not a thread about other players though. There’s loads of threads criticising everyone. My gripe and the subject of this thread are three midfielders that I believe deserve criticism due to their profile. I can easily criticise everyone but I’m trying to be patient with young players and new signings and not get on their back immediately after one bad performance. As I said though these are three international players in their prime with experience in the prem and at Everton and they have served up over a year or relegation form. People might not like their favourites being called out but this is the truth. 1 win in 17 games when the three of them have played in midfield.

i actually think this is a reasonible post and OP is pretty bob on!
Apart from Pickford, these 3 have probably played more than anyone over the past 2 years, and 75% of performances have not been good enough over that time.
Gana, although at times this season has been very good, i always think he is over rated by us, he does a couple of things really well - energy and tackling, the rest he is not good enough at! No one of the teams above or around us would take him - e.g Leicester have Ndidi, Bournemouth have Jefferson Lerma
Schneiderlin i think is a coward, and not in the sence of blood and guts etc, he hides from receiving the ball, he dosent push forward to try and create anything, he plays conservative cowardly football, taking absolutely no risk and getting no reward (opposite end of that scale was probably rooney last season who was all risk), this may sound harsh, but making himself availible yesterday was selfish! It was silly of Silva to select him, and also it was a "I can use this to show my commitment moment" problem with his commitment is, he can say and do all these things, but he will never lose that cowardlyness to dominate on the pitch
Sigurdsson - I bet you if Silva & Brands got offered 30m for him right now they would bite your hand off. Again someone who seems scared to try something a little inventive, not taking responsibility, but like Gana can put in a good performance! But its not enough! 1 game in 4 was probably enough for Swansea, but it wasent for Spurs - i also think Silva dosent want to play with a no.10, but he has no option as he cant drop the 45m man

 

[Toffe3m4n]

The midfield functions a whole lot better with Tom Davies in there.

You all know it as well.

Feck me... Tom Davies is crap when he plays and boss when he doesn't!!

This place literally cannot be any more contradictory if it tried. Whole load of hot air from arl stubborn bastards and little else.

 

[APN_EFC]

Schneiderlin Gueye Siggurdson. Over 70 million pounds of ‘talent’ yet in my option they are the worst Everton midfield I’ve seen since the turn of the century.

In recent times we’ve seen Rooney Besic Cleverley Klaasen Vlasic leave the club whilst these three have remained. Apart from Klaasen I would rather see any of these players in our midfield (not that any are good enough, but they are better in my opinio
n than the unholy trinity).

Serious recruitment is needed in this area. Neville and Carsley would have bossed this midfield with ease never mind the likes of Arteta Pienaar Cahill Fellaini Fernandes etc. A teenage centreback from West Ham who hasn’t played this season and has never played midfield has completely run all over the unholy trinity. They are truly terrible players and amongst the worst midfielders in the league and have been for a long time now. Some of them have looked ok when either Barkley or Rooney has held their hands but as a three and a combination they are truely woeful.

Can anyone think of worse?

Normally I prefer to be blindly optimistic and positive...

I kind of agree. Arteta Cahill were lightweight yet so much better, though i can't remember who was the third midfielder in the centre consistently

Even Stuart McCall, Gravesen at times, would be welcome!

 

[Raino85]

Yes you are isolating those three but to make a point about the TEAM / SQUAD and their ability to get results.

And you say "people don't like their favourites being called out" but you're diluting that point by NOT calling out others. You actively don't like the three you've mentioned and are trying to shoe horn justification via stats and omissions of things your eyes can tell you.

E.g.

Stats will tell you that your trio were part of the team who lost.

Your eyes will tell you that has Tosun and Niasse been at the races, there is a very reasonable assertion that we would have scored more than West Ham and won.

Mine & his eyes would also of told you if we didnt give stupid goals away and not bother offering any sort of protection to a back line, then we would of won the match.
Midfield has been terrible for 2 years now, not even a top 12 midfield, and its the same players in that spot every week

 

[Raino85]

Normally I prefer to be blindly optimistic and positive...

I kind of agree. Arteta Cahill were lightweight yet so much better, though i can't remember who was the third midfielder in the centre consistently

Even Stuart McCall, Gravesen at times, would be welcome!

At times Carsley, later on Neville and cameos from Fernandes/Fellaini/Osman even Heitinga etc etc

 

[APN_EFC]

i actually think this is a reasonible post and OP is pretty bob on!
Apart from Pickford, these 3 have probably played more than anyone over the past 2 years, and 75% of performances have not been good enough over that time.
Gana, although at times this season has been very good, i always think he is over rated by us, he does a couple of things really well - energy and tackling, the rest he is not good enough at! No one of the teams above or around us would take him - e.g Leicester have Ndidi, Bournemouth have Jefferson Lerma
Schneiderlin i think is a coward, and not in the sence of blood and guts etc, he hides from receiving the ball, he dosent push forward to try and create anything, he plays conservative cowardly football, taking absolutely no risk and getting no reward (opposite end of that scale was probably rooney last season who was all risk), this may sound harsh, but making himself availible yesterday was selfish! It was silly of Silva to select him, and also it was a "I can use this to show my commitment moment" problem with his commitment is, he can say and do all these things, but he will never lose that cowardlyness to dominate on the pitch
Sigurdsson - I bet you if Silva & Brands got offered 30m for him right now they would bite your hand off. Again someone who seems scared to try something a little inventive, not taking responsibility, but like Gana can put in a good performance! But its not enough! 1 game in 4 was probably enough for Swansea, but it wasent for Spurs - i also think Silva dosent want to play with a no.10, but he has no option as he cant drop the 45m man

In agree with this post and reply

I want to really like Gana and Schneiderlin, and I want Sigurdsson to do well too, but I still can't understand

- Is Gana really just a lightweight version of Kante, and a really poor version

- What is Schneiderlin really good at? I don't know what he is like at his best, never seen it.

- Sigurdsson, I would be a little more patient, though he is not a quick, powerful player that I think fits this team's ideal style

 

[Brisan123]

I think City have found the perfect blend in a midfield
Fernidihno does the DM role and takes the ball out of defence and feeds the midfield two
KDB does the box to box role and Silva is the NO 10
At the moment we don’t have any of these
Schnederlin is supposed to do the DM role but hasn’t got the athletism to do so
Gana can harry and chase but cannot pass the ball and offers nothing going forward
Siggy is being used wrong and not being given the chance to do so
Gomes hopefully will be the box to box midfielder and Bernard the No 10.
We badly need a Dm who offers more than Gana/Schnederlin both defensively and going forward
If Gomes does well here I think he will want to stay to rebuild his career and Barca will want rid.
So a good DM and the midfield could be sorted if Gomes and Bernard show their proper form

 

[Philljacobs]

Midfield has been an issue for a good few seasons. Nobody wants to take responsibility, easy sideways passes to the full backs or just give it back to where it came from and hope someone else will play the lesser percentage forward pass into a striker or a winger. Hopefully Gomes will have make a difference when fit.

 

[mkrudden]

Mine & his eyes would also of told you if we didnt give stupid goals away and not bother offering any sort of protection to a back line, then we would of won the match.
Midfield has been terrible for 2 years now, not even a top 12 midfield, and its the same players in that spot every week

Agreed but going into the summer would you have said CM was the absolute priority?

I'd have said CB, LB and some genuine creativity and the top end of the pitch. Then CM.

We got all of that in but are yet to see the benefit.

We've got Marco Silva, we are therefore always going to be open and leak goals. I'm ok with that provided we are clinical.

I'm hoping Mina is our Van Dijk, a powerful, front foot defender who leads the back line. We've seen the huge improvement across the park buying a quality CB can bring. Then Gomes in alongside Gueye and we have on paper a good side.

What SD is wanting to do is blame our losses on 3 players which is just MAD.

You say proper protection of the defence would have helped by the way, whilst you are correct to a degree, let's go quickly through the goals

1. A defensive midfielder may have cut the initial pass into Arnau' but does that remove Zouma from responsibility. He was sold a one two OVER his head. Then Digne was nowhere to be found as Yarmolenko tapped in.

2. Pickford passes the ball to West Ham. Zouma and Digne then show him inside onto his left foot.

3. Number 1 repeated albeit on the ground. Sure the first pass may have been cut out but what is Holgate doing? Completely sent on a merry dance by a one two.

So yeah, the midfield could have done a touch better but by God, are we really exonerating the keeper and defence? Throw in my previous post about the sitters missed and is the answer really "the Unholy Trinity"?

Not for me.

 

[Simon Buttle]

Agreed but going into the summer would you have said CM was the absolute priority?

I'd have said CB, LB and some genuine creativity and the top end of the pitch. Then CM.

We got all of that in but are yet to see the benefit.

We've got Marco Silva, we are therefore always going to be open and leak goals. I'm ok with that provided we are clinical.

I'm hoping Mina is our Van Dijk, a powerful, front foot defender who leads the back line. We've seen the huge improvement across the park buying a quality CB can bring. Then Gomes in alongside Gueye and we have on paper a good side.

What SD is wanting to do is blame our losses on 3 players which is just MAD.

You say proper protection of the defence would have helped by the way, whilst you are correct to a degree, let's go quickly through the goals

1. A defensive midfielder may have cut the initial pass into Arnau' but does that remove Zouma from responsibility. He was sold a one two OVER his head. Then Digne was nowhere to be found as Yarmolenko tapped in.

2. Pickford passes the ball to West Ham. Zouma and Digne then show him inside onto his left foot.

3. Number 1 repeated albeit on the ground. Sure the first pass may have been cut out but what is Holgate doing? Completely sent on a merry dance by a one two.

So yeah, the midfield could have done a touch better but by God, are we really exonerating the keeper and defence? Throw in my previous post about the sitters missed and is the answer really "the Unholy Trinity"?

Not for me.

I don't think he is blaming our losses on those 3, but at the same time it's been obvious for a while now that they don't compliment each other and can't play together especially Gana and Sneiderlin. I do think when Gomes is fit we will see a different midfield, more of a midfield 3 which is how Silva prefers to play and i think come the winter transfer window we have to sign a better version of Gana or Sneiderlin who can actually pass the ball a bit properly through the middle.

 

[mkrudden]

I don't think he is blaming our losses on those 3, but at the same time it's been obvious for a while now that they don't compliment each other and can't play together especially Gana and Sneiderlin. I do think when Gomes is fit we will see a different midfield, more of a midfield 3 which is how Silva prefers to play and i think come the winter transfer window we have to sign a better version of Gana or Sneiderlin who can actually pass the ball a bit properly through the middle.

Oh the scamp that is @Saint Domingo definitely is. Read this from earlier in the thread:

The unholy trinity have started together 17 times. Of those 17 we’ve won 4, drawn 6 and lost 7.

The 4 wins: Bournemouth (h) (both goals scored after Davies replaced MS to rescue a losing position), Newcastle (a), Swansea (h) (all goals scored after Davies replaced MS early in the game), Southampton (h) (MS went off early with the score at 1-0 to be replaced by Davies)

That means we have won 1 game out of 17 when all three have started together and played 90 minutes (If memory serves me correctly we had 2 shots on target that night both from the same move that led to Rooneys goal)

So when people say ‘they’re not that bad’ etc. They’re wrong. The stats show it. They are woeful.

 

[mkrudden]

That bloody Unholy Trinity!!! *Shakes fist

cc: @Saint Domingo