The Wall - stick or twist?

[Deco]

Erm, I think having our best two midfielders out yesterday was why we had to try and stay compact. It almost worked.

I don't mind the style or tactics at all, it's the issue of not getting on the front foot early in the second half of matches. That's as much on the players as it is on the tactics.

I do think Carlo can be a bit more proactive with his subs, but we need better, more mobile players, too.

We've taken 16 points from the last 21 on offer. Not bad going.

On top of this, winning is what makes a difference to mood. I'd rather watch us win 1-0 than draw 2-2.

 

[Zatara]

It's supposed to be entertaining. If people were allowed in the ground, you want to spend hard earned money watching this tripe because I don't.

Again, I love Carlo and I am very pleased and proud he is our manager but the hypocrisy is astounding; if Silva, Koeman or Allardyce were serving this up there would be hell to pay.

I am not having that these professional players, premiership and international players can't play better than this. It served a purpose when everyone was injured but that isn't the case now and it needs punting these tactics they're shocking.

Erm, I think having our best two midfielders out yesterday was why we had to try and stay compact. It almost worked.

I don't mind the style or tactics at all, it's the issue of not getting on the front foot early in the second half of matches. That's as much on the players as it is on the tactics.

I do think Carlo can be a bit more proactive with his subs, but we need better, more mobile players, too.

We've taken 16 points from the last 21 on offer. Not bad going.

In terms of 'entertainment' i suppose it depends on what you find entertaining.

Its subjective isnt it? George Grahams Arsenal used to win based on a tight defence and getting 1-0 every game -- from that they had alot of fans.

Its all about having a tight defence but creating a few good chances and taking them.

You put Kanchelskis into the team and we'd probably be top now as hed rip teams on the counter.

Some would find the defending entertaining and everyone would find Kanchelskis entertaining but you need both.

I disagree, and I think many others would too. We were a Pickford away from beating the almighty title challenging Leicester both home and away. 6 points taken off the almighty Leicester City!

Despite having the crappest goalkeeper in the league, we are still, technically, in the title race FFS (winning the games in hand would have us equal with the almighty Leicester) who we should have beaten with our 3rd choice central midfield yesterday!

Most of this title challenging form has come through improving the defence to the best level seen in years!

This idea that we’d rather have seen Gary Ablett and Matt Jackson running up the wing rather than doing enough to prevent Giggs and Scholes from making us lose our 4th cup final in a row is nonsense. We had to play defensively, and it was ultimately big Dave Watson and Neville Southall that gave us our last taste of success.

I don’t want to see fancy play in an advanced wing position, when it just leads to the other team counter attacking and us losing. Let us do the counter attacking, and more importantly, the winning!

Not to mention Parkinson/ Horne in the middle -- see Doucoure / Allan -- we just need to add more quality and depth.

 

[Zatara]

I mean you know Atletico far more than me. It's more in the broad sense. Defensive team, horrible to play against, give you nothing. Streetwise, aggressive, big, strong and start every game trying to get a 0 against. Thats the base they build from and have done for 8-10 years under Simeone for me.

I mean maybe they play cb's at fullback, maybe not. I think there is a bigger point in all of this though, about the broad approach as opposed to specifics of how to do it.

It's smart too. They could never emulate outscoring teams like Madrid and Barca could do. Neither can we, so you find an alternative way to play. To a degree Klopp did similar with Dortmund, they outworked teams and did something quite extreme and unusual.

4 at the back is probably that for us. It's working. I stick with it for now. If it stops working I ditch, but it's worth keepign with currently. There can be a review in the summer.

I think we keep the solid base but we can tweak it a little against teams like Newcastle who we have to play on the front foot against.

Key is really to make sure the 6 players in front of the defence are effective both ways.

In the summer, if we end up 4th then whats Richarlison going to do? Hes hardly going to put in a transfer request if were in the champions league...same with Digne etc.

We have to get that 4th spot regularly to keep players and if we sell them were then in a strong position to ask top dollar.

 

[Terrarian]

I disagree, and I think many others would too. We were a Pickford away from beating the almighty title challenging Leicester both home and away. 6 points taken off the almighty Leicester City!

Despite having the crappest goalkeeper in the league, we are still, technically, in the title race FFS (winning the games in hand would have us equal with the almighty Leicester) who we should have beaten with our 3rd choice central midfield yesterday!

Most of this title challenging form has come through improving the defence to the best level seen in years!

This idea that we’d rather have seen Gary Ablett and Matt Jackson running up the wing rather than doing enough to prevent Giggs and Scholes from making us lose our 4th cup final in a row is nonsense. We had to play defensively, and it was ultimately big Dave Watson and Neville Southall that gave us our last taste of success.

I don’t want to see fancy play in an advanced wing position, when it just leads to the other team counter attacking and us losing. Let us do the counter attacking, and more importantly, the winning!

I'm fine with others liking it, it serves a purpose and has done us good but it isn't sustainable and nobody wants to see that 38 games a season. We need balance. But I do acknowledge it was a needs must situation.

 

[Terrarian]

Erm, I think having our best two midfielders out yesterday was why we had to try and stay compact. It almost worked.

I don't mind the style or tactics at all, it's the issue of not getting on the front foot early in the second half of matches. That's as much on the players as it is on the tactics.

I do think Carlo can be a bit more proactive with his subs, but we need better, more mobile players, too.

We've taken 16 points from the last 21 on offer. Not bad going.

I understand the situation we were in with injuries but we are talking about 2 players out of the whole squad means we can't play football, I'm not having it. It was needed originally definitely, we need more now.

It is only my own view but I really don't want to watch that again.

 

[Terrarian]

On top of this, winning is what makes a difference to mood. I'd rather watch us win 1-0 than draw 2-2.

but we drew because we invited pressure and yes a error was the cause but if you allow teams to constantly attack this happens.

I wasn't fine with any other manager playing like this so I am not just bowing down as it's Carlo.

What I will also acknowledge though is it is great to see tactical flexibility when things need changing and not sticking with something that isn't working like previous regimes.

 

[Deco]

but we drew because we invited pressure and yes a error was the cause but if you allow teams to constantly attack this happens.

I wasn't fine with any other manager playing like this so I am not just bowing down as it's Carlo.

What I will also acknowledge though is it is great to see tactical flexibility when things need changing and not sticking with something that isn't working like previous regimes.

Agreed that sitting deep and inviting pressure is boring and likely to go wrong.

Equally though I think our midfield options limited us against a good team.

I think back to early in the season, we had a fully fit team and went at everyone with free flowing football.

I’ve always been happy with winning but I also know we’ll be entertaining to watch in the coming months as we re-create the early season attack.

 

[Terrarian]

Agreed that sitting deep and inviting pressure is boring and likely to go wrong.

Equally though I think our midfield options limited us against a good team.

I think back to early in the season, we had a fully fit team and went at everyone with free flowing football.

I’ve always been happy with winning but I also know we’ll be entertaining to watch in the coming months as we re-create the early season attack.

I really hope the balance can be found. I don't mind grinding out wins as long as we have attacking intent as well, just really don't like backs to the wall hang on to a 1 goal lead stuff.

 

[BlueToff]

I understand the situation we were in with injuries but we are talking about 2 players out of the whole squad means we can't play football, I'm not having it. It was needed originally definitely, we need more now.

It is only my own view but I really don't want to watch that again.

Well no, it's just that Leicester had their fully fit midfield and we had Davies and Gomes who were part of the reason we had to go and spend £40m on a new midfield this past summer.

If we'd had tried to go toe-to-toe with Leicester the other day we'd have got battered.

However, that's not to say we shouldn't have been more aggressive and got onto the front foot more.

The issue was we didn't hold the ball well enough and for 25 mins in the second half had no outball. I think Carlo could have looked to change that earlier than he did, because we saw after Leicester scored that when we took a 5-10 yards up the pitch, we still looked comfortable.

Boils back to having a poor squad though and we need better players.

 

[Terrarian]

Well no, it's just that Leicester had their fully fit midfield and we had Davies and Gomes who were part of the reason we had to go and spend £40m on a new midfield this past summer.

If we'd had tried to go toe-to-toe with Leicester the other day we'd have got battered.

However, that's not to say we shouldn't have been more aggressive and got onto the front foot more.

The issue was we didn't hold the ball well enough and for 25 mins in the second half had no outball. I think Carlo could have looked to change that earlier than he did, because we saw after Leicester scored that when we took a 5-10 yards up the pitch, we still looked comfortable.

Boils back to having a poor squad though and we need better players.

I do agree with a lot of whats being said. I just don't agree with that type of football for a team with euro aspirations. The ball retention thing is a huge problem, I have been saying it all season, we give it away far too cheaply, far too often.

 

[BlueToff]

I do agree with a lot of whats being said. I just don't agree with that type of football for a team with euro aspirations. The ball retention thing is a huge problem, I have been saying it all season, we give it away far too cheaply, far too often.

But it's not part of the plan to give the ball away. Carlo said the other day how frustrating it was.

Richarlison's major asset is his ability to hold onto the ball high up the pitch but we're stuck with him playing on top of the full-back at times and yes, that's an issue. We needed someone else to get us up the pitch. It isn't James, because he can't run with the ball. He's all about passing, but then he needs runners and all we had the other day for 20 mins in the second half was DCL.

That needs to improve, but that's down to the players sitting too deep and Leicester putting the pressure on us.

Our second half displays are generally poor and that needs looking at. But, doesn't change that we were without our two best and two most mobile midfielders the other day.

It's all about mobility in this league. You can have James, but then you need legs around him. The issue with our squad - and Brands has been a big part of this too, not just Walsh - is that it's full of one-paced, immobile players.

Fortunately, the signings we brought in last summer gave us more energy and speed and power. But still, we need players with more of that and skill on the ball to match.

I wouldn't say the football we play recently has been 'enjoyable' but it's certainly better than what we played in the latter days of Silva's tenure or Martinez's or Big Sam's or Koeman's second season.

 

[Terrarian]

. Carlo said the other day how frustrating it was.

Richarlison's major asset is his ability to hold onto the ball high up the pitch but we're stuck with him playing on top of the full-back at times and yes, that's an issue. We needed someone else to get us up the pitch. It isn't James, because he can't run with the ball. He's all about passing, but then he needs runners and all we had the other day for 20 mins in the second half was DCL.

That needs to improve, but that's down to the players sitting too deep and Leicester putting the pressure on us.

Our second half displays are generally poor and that needs looking at. But, doesn't change that we were without our two best and two most mobile midfielders the other day.

It's all about mobility in this league. You can have James, but then you need legs around him. The issue with our squad - and Brands has been a big part of this too, not just Walsh - is that it's full of one-paced, immobile players.

Fortunately, the signings we brought in last summer gave us more energy and speed and power. But still, we need players with more of that and skill on the ball to match.

I wouldn't say the football we play recently has been 'enjoyable' but it's certainly better than what we played in the latter days of Silva's tenure or Martinez's or Big Sam's or Koeman's second sea

Obviously it's not the plan to give the ball away come on man, that's ridiculous.

If you think that football is any better than previous managers then you are biased to Carlo, I'm sorry but it is every bit as bad. However we know he will change it when he can and that's the difference.

 

[BlueToff]

Obviously it's not the plan to give the ball away come on man, that's ridiculous.

If you think that football is any better than previous managers then you are biased to Carlo, I'm sorry but it is every bit as bad. However we know he will change it when he can and that's the difference.

It's functional.

At the start of the season we tried to play a more expansive game and it worked, but we saw that against Liverpool and even Leeds we got ripped to shreds.

If we set up like we do now and went into those two games, I'd back us to get four points at least.

Now the trick is merging that defensive solidity with more attacking purpose and thrust, and to do it for longer spells, rather than the odd moment.

I'm biased to Carlo because we've taken 33 points 17 games into the season.

 

[Terrarian]

It's functional.

At the start of the season we tried to play a more expansive game and it worked, but we saw that against Liverpool and even Leeds we got ripped to shreds.

If we set up like we do now and went into those two games, I'd back us to get four points at least.

Now the trick is merging that defensive solidity with more attacking purpose and thrust, and to do it for longer spells, rather than the odd moment.

I'm biased to Carlo because we've taken 33 points 17 games into the season.

I love Carlo and he's done what needed to be done but it's horrible to watch for me. The sooner he gets some more of his own players the better if we can't trust others to actually playu football.

 

[catcherintherye]

Obviously it's not the plan to give the ball away come on man, that's ridiculous.

If you think that football is any better than previous managers then you are biased to Carlo, I'm sorry but it is every bit as bad. However we know he will change it when he can and that's the difference.

But under other managers, we've not been with 6 or 7 of the top of the league. Thats the difference I suppose.