This nurse Letby case

If the prosecution with held information like that from the defence, it`d be an instant mistrial, yet there wasn`t one.

It would almost certainly form the central plank for an appeal, yet her most appeal was recently rejected !!!

This was one of the most scrutinised, publicised and reported on crimes that this country has ever seen, yet no one picked this up either.

Why haven`t her defence team ever raised this issue ?

As I`ve said before, she`s retained the same legal team throughout, so she obviously has faith in them.

Surely any sane person would be thinking " my legal team are missing all kinds here, maybe time to get someone new in " , yet she hasn`t ?
just because something evidence wise wasn't raised/aired at trial doesnt mean its a mistrial; each team (pros and def) will make tactical decisions as to what to raise and what not to raise as evidence for the jury to consider. We didnt see alll of the evidence at the trial, the jury did, They will have seen and formed a view on the strengths or weaknesses of the witnesses. These types of after the event, one sided accounts dont get any scrutiny from the other side so of course they can sound convincing. As you say COYB, this has gone through the process of scrutiny. I've had dealings with her barrister, he is awesome, so if there were flaws in the prosecution, I'd be surprised if he'd miss it.

That said, medical evidence can be down to opinion, the medics have been know to close ranks before, and if key information was withheld from disclosure that should have been disclosed, that is a big problem but there isnt evidence of this (yet?)
 
If the prosecution with held information like that from the defence, it`d be an instant mistrial, yet there wasn`t one.

It would almost certainly form the central plank for an appeal, yet her most appeal was recently rejected !!!

This was one of the most scrutinised, publicised and reported on crimes that this country has ever seen, yet no one picked this up either.

Why haven`t her defence team ever raised this issue ?

As I`ve said before, she`s retained the same legal team throughout, so she obviously has faith in them.

Surely any sane person would be thinking " my legal team are missing all kinds here, maybe time to get someone new in " , yet she hasn`t ?


Her legal team, IMO, will have realised that there was no chance of a fair hearing given the circumstantial evidence against Letby and the media/public mood, and will have known that a retrial down the line - as in the case of Lucia De Berk in Holland - was her best bet at eventual freedom.

I certainly wouldn't say Letby is innocent 100% but I do take the argument that there was reasonable doubt.

The statistical data is at best conjecture and unconvincing; ditto the medical assessment of cause of deaths, and the anecdotal evidence was similarly ropey. IIRC some of the statements doctors gave to police against her were later walked back. And the hospital trust were - as always - only too willing to put a nurse or doctor into the firing line to hide their own criminal incompetence. I think she created her own problem with her own personal notes which looked very incriminating.

As I say: she might be guilty, but she might not be. This will end up back in court though, no question.
 
Her legal team, IMO, will have realised that there was no chance of a fair hearing given the circumstantial evidence against Letby and the media/public mood, and will have known that a retrial down the line - as in the case of Lucia De Berk in Holland - was her best bet at eventual freedom.

I certainly wouldn't say Letby is innocent 100% but I do take the argument that there was reasonable doubt.

The statistical data is at best conjecture and unconvincing; ditto the medical assessment of cause of deaths, and the anecdotal evidence was similarly ropey. IIRC some of the statements doctors gave to police against her were later walked back. And the hospital trust were - as always - only too willing to put a nurse or doctor into the firing line to hide their own criminal incompetence. I think she created her own problem with her own personal notes which looked very incriminating.

As I say: she might be guilty, but she might not be. This will end up back in court though, no question.

I think the fact that babies stopped dying once she was caught
speaks volumes too.
 

It could just mean that an understaffed neo-natal unit got the resources they need to keep all babies alive.
That works on the presumption that the deaths were caused by negligence. The evidence suggests someone purposely tampering to cause injury or death.

Her log sheets are quite damming to according to the articles I've read on the case.
 
That works on the presumption that the deaths were caused by negligence. The evidence suggests someone purposely tampering to cause injury or death.

Her log sheets are quite damming to according to the articles I've read on the case.
Negligence, no. Error caused by lack of staff and resources, yes.

The log sheets could equally be the outcome of a nurse who was seen as crucial to the unit being on call - or feeling the need to be on call - all the time in a failing unit.

Also, the category 'significant events' - of which she was present at in all 25 occasions - is, AFAIK, defined unclearly. If that;s the case a prosecutor could easily determine who was 'the perpetrator' and then work back from there, placing her at the scene of all known serious events...a point made in the documentary last night.
 
Negligence, no. Error caused by lack of staff and resources, yes.

The log sheets could equally be the outcome of a nurse who was seen as crucial to the unit being on call - or feeling the need to be on call - all the time in a failing unit.

Also, the category 'significant events' - of which she was present at in all 25 occasions - is, AFAIK, defined unclearly. If that;s the case a prosecutor could easily determine who was 'the perpetrator' and then work back from there, placing her at the scene of all known serious events...a point made in the documentary last night.
how can you exclude negligence so easily? Just because it's the wonderful NHS doesnt mean it isnt staffed by people, some of whom will be negligent.

Your last comment is a horrific way of investigating, identify a suspect then look for evidence that implicated that suspect.
 

Negligence, no. Error caused by lack of staff and resources, yes.

The log sheets could equally be the outcome of a nurse who was seen as crucial to the unit being on call - or feeling the need to be on call - all the time in a failing unit.

Also, the category 'significant events' - of which she was present at in all 25 occasions - is, AFAIK, defined unclearly. If that;s the case a prosecutor could easily determine who was 'the perpetrator' and then work back from there, placing her at the scene of all known serious events...a point made in the documentary last night.

In Britain, an investigation is always a search for the truth, not a search for the guilty.
 
how can you exclude negligence so easily? Just because it's the wonderful NHS doesnt mean it isnt staffed by people, some of whom will be negligent.

Your last comment is a horrific way of investigating, identify a suspect then look for evidence that implicated that suspect.
Well I wasn't advocating it! However, that's what appears to have happened to get the conviction.

As far as 'negligence' is concerned: it implies a wilfulness that need not necessarily be there to explain what happened. Bureaucracies are well capable of massive blunders, and when that bureaucracy is in control of a health care setting - like a hospital trust - it can be catastrophic.
 
Well I wasn't advocating it! However, that's what appears to have happened to get the conviction.

As far as 'negligence' is concerned: it implies a wilfulness that need not necessarily be there to explain what happened. Bureaucracies are well capable of massive blunders, and when that bureaucracy is in control of a health care setting - like a hospital trust - it can be catastrophic.
I wasn't saying you were advocating it Dave, I didnt watch the programme so cant comment but that way of investigating anything should be long dead. It is riddled with confirmation bias.

I think you'll find that negligence is 'failing to take proper care', that doesnt have to be wilful, (ie a positive action to reduce care) it can also be failing to do something that you should ie by being lazy and feckless. NHS staff are drawn from and will reflect society so some will be brilliant, some will be lazy and feckless, some will be murdering criminals, most wont.
 
Negligence, no. Error caused by lack of staff and resources, yes.

The log sheets could equally be the outcome of a nurse who was seen as crucial to the unit being on call - or feeling the need to be on call - all the time in a failing unit.

Also, the category 'significant events' - of which she was present at in all 25 occasions - is, AFAIK, defined unclearly. If that;s the case a prosecutor could easily determine who was 'the perpetrator' and then work back from there, placing her at the scene of all known serious events...a point made in the documentary last night.
This video answers all your questions, it wasn't lack of staff nor errors of an incompetent nurse. It was deliberate.

The are other things in the case you have left out, from her diary which she hand written "I am evil I did this" and the names of the victims on the days they died, to hospital records under her bed which included names of her victims. To pictures of the hand written condolence cards. All of these are trophies to her.

You say she might be guilty, but there is no other evidence to suggest a different cause. And so much evidence to suggest she did it.

 

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