TIM HOWARD THOUGH

[ijjysmith]

I miss scoring goals and having players create more

I do miss that too to be fair.

 

[Joey66]

yup, a lot of people who complain about him not coming off his line enough are the same who complained about him being off his line for the southampton save. He had a [Poor language removed] season but that was a world class save.

Big difference on being out of position whether on his line or standing on his six yard box too much!

 

[Saint Domingo]

So it wasn't a couple of seasons in a row then.

If you honestly think Howard and Distin have been poor for us for years then there really is no conversation here. That my friend is just utter bollocks. If we're to go by your comments here, you're a fine example of a fan that watches a players previous season and bases their entire career off it. Last season is a complete and utter write off from pretty much the entire squad. We could go through the whole team really truth be told.

Not really, when Howard joined he was a good keeper for us because he had good reflexes, but over time they went and the weaknesses in his game he used to cover up started to be exposed: poor positioning, weakness under the highball, poor positioning on direct free kicks, poor keeping for long range shots. As his reactions went he started doing things he never used to like guessing which way an attacker was going and going to ground before the shot even came in, or rushing out and getting trapped in no mans land.

At first everyone gave him the benefit of the doubt, the defence was blamed, Moyes usually was blamed, it was a brilliant free kick by Gerrard etc. but slowly but surely it became undeniable, Howard was no longer a good keeper.

Similarly with Distin, his pace and power covered up really poor positioning. Ask yourself why was Distin always chasing attackers at full pelt to put in s last ditch challenge whereas Stones barely seems to get out of top gear but is everywhere intercepting? One has good positioning, the other doesn't. So one week the crowd see Aguero chased down by Distin and think he's a top class CB. They don't see that long diagonal cross that yet again we've conceded from because Distin has ended up halfway up the left wing.

If you want a game to display the point I'm making Newcastle at home 12/13 always sticks in my head. We'd started the season well playing good football and a poor Newcastle rolled into Goodison. We absolutely demolished them but some poor refereeing meant we only scored two in the game. Newcastle barely threatened but Osman slipped in midfield allowing Ba a shot on goal. Howard was on his backside before Ba had even hit it so their first shot of the game went in. We regained the lead only for in the last minute a Newcastle free kick from their keeper was punted down the pitch into a gaping hole where Distin should have been, Ba nipped in and rather than being forced to finish or round the keeper he hit it under Howard who for some reason thought a star jump was a good idea. We threw away two points that the rest of the team had more than earned, and that season especially they continued in this vein, draws bring snatched from wins. Surprise surprise we were single figure points from fourth that year. It always got blamed on Moyes but some of it was simple stuff a good keeper and good centreback would mop up. Mourinho hangs on in games all the time to 1-0 leads because he trusts his defence. Moyes was getting slated for sitting back because we had a pair of clowns at the back who got nervous after 85 mins if we were in the lead. Got to the point were one goal was never enough for us. It shouldn't be like that. The fans answer was always 'Moyes should score more', he should have but you can't win every game 3-0.

Being sentimental for good players is fine. At a time both players were good players for us, but this is the top of the most cut throat league in the world. Arsenal are discarding two better keepers than our first choice because an even better one became available. We're sticking with a keeper who was statistically the worst in the league last year in the hope he can recapture some old form which even at best was just good? That sort of stuff keeps you in 7th, or 11th.

 

[sageyefc]

So we all agree that Tim is a tw@ and is useless

 

[Chang Elephant]

Not really, when Howard joined he was a good keeper for us because he had good reflexes, but over time they went and the weaknesses in his game he used to cover up started to be exposed: poor positioning, weakness under the highball, poor positioning on direct free kicks, poor keeping for long range shots. As his reactions went he started doing things he never used to like guessing which way an attacker was going and going to ground before the shot even came in, or rushing out and getting trapped in no mans land.

At first everyone gave him the benefit of the doubt, the defence was blamed, Moyes usually was blamed, it was a brilliant free kick by Gerrard etc. but slowly but surely it became undeniable, Howard was no longer a good keeper.

Similarly with Distin, his pace and power covered up really poor positioning. Ask yourself why was Distin always chasing attackers at full pelt to put in s last ditch challenge whereas Stones barely seems to get out of top gear but is everywhere intercepting? One has good positioning, the other doesn't. So one week the crowd see Aguero chased down by Distin and think he's a top class CB. They don't see that long diagonal cross that yet again we've conceded from because Distin has ended up halfway up the left wing.

If you want a game to display the point I'm making Newcastle at home 12/13 always sticks in my head. We'd started the season well playing good football and a poor Newcastle rolled into Goodison. We absolutely demolished them but some poor refereeing meant we only scored two in the game. Newcastle barely threatened but Osman slipped in midfield allowing Ba a shot on goal. Howard was on his backside before Ba had even hit it so their first shot of the game went in. We regained the lead only for in the last minute a Newcastle free kick from their keeper was punted down the pitch into a gaping hole where Distin should have been, Ba nipped in and rather than being forced to finish or round the keeper he hit it under Howard who for some reason thought a star jump was a good idea. We threw away two points that the rest of the team had more than earned, and that season especially they continued in this vein, draws bring snatched from wins. Surprise surprise we were single figure points from fourth that year. It always got blamed on Moyes but some of it was simple stuff a good keeper and good centreback would mop up. Mourinho hangs on in games all the time to 1-0 leads because he trusts his defence. Moyes was getting slated for sitting back because we had a pair of clowns at the back who got nervous after 85 mins if we were in the lead. Got to the point were one goal was never enough for us. It shouldn't be like that. The fans answer was always 'Moyes should score more', he should have but you can't win every game 3-0.

Being sentimental for good players is fine. At a time both players were good players for us, but this is the top of the most cut throat league in the world. Arsenal are discarding two better keepers than our first choice because an even better one became available. We're sticking with a keeper who was statistically the worst in the league last year in the hope he can recapture some old form which even at best was just good? That sort of stuff keeps you in 7th, or 11th.

Great post mate

 

[ijjysmith]

Not really, when Howard joined he was a good keeper for us because he had good reflexes, but over time they went and the weaknesses in his game he used to cover up started to be exposed: poor positioning, weakness under the highball, poor positioning on direct free kicks, poor keeping for long range shots. As his reactions went he started doing things he never used to like guessing which way an attacker was going and going to ground before the shot even came in, or rushing out and getting trapped in no mans land.

At first everyone gave him the benefit of the doubt, the defence was blamed, Moyes usually was blamed, it was a brilliant free kick by Gerrard etc. but slowly but surely it became undeniable, Howard was no longer a good keeper.

Similarly with Distin, his pace and power covered up really poor positioning. Ask yourself why was Distin always chasing attackers at full pelt to put in s last ditch challenge whereas Stones barely seems to get out of top gear but is everywhere intercepting? One has good positioning, the other doesn't. So one week the crowd see Aguero chased down by Distin and think he's a top class CB. They don't see that long diagonal cross that yet again we've conceded from because Distin has ended up halfway up the left wing.

If you want a game to display the point I'm making Newcastle at home 12/13 always sticks in my head. We'd started the season well playing good football and a poor Newcastle rolled into Goodison. We absolutely demolished them but some poor refereeing meant we only scored two in the game. Newcastle barely threatened but Osman slipped in midfield allowing Ba a shot on goal. Howard was on his backside before Ba had even hit it so their first shot of the game went in. We regained the lead only for in the last minute a Newcastle free kick from their keeper was punted down the pitch into a gaping hole where Distin should have been, Ba nipped in and rather than being forced to finish or round the keeper he hit it under Howard who for some reason thought a star jump was a good idea. We threw away two points that the rest of the team had more than earned, and that season especially they continued in this vein, draws bring snatched from wins. Surprise surprise we were single figure points from fourth that year. It always got blamed on Moyes but some of it was simple stuff a good keeper and good centreback would mop up. Mourinho hangs on in games all the time to 1-0 leads because he trusts his defence. Moyes was getting slated for sitting back because we had a pair of clowns at the back who got nervous after 85 mins if we were in the lead. Got to the point were one goal was never enough for us. It shouldn't be like that. The fans answer was always 'Moyes should score more', he should have but you can't win every game 3-0.

Being sentimental for good players is fine. At a time both players were good players for us, but this is the top of the most cut throat league in the world. Arsenal are discarding two better keepers than our first choice because an even better one became available. We're sticking with a keeper who was statistically the worst in the league last year in the hope he can recapture some old form which even at best was just good? That sort of stuff keeps you in 7th, or 11th.

POS REP

 

[carolinablue232]

Not really, when Howard joined he was a good keeper for us because he had good reflexes, but over time they went and the weaknesses in his game he used to cover up started to be exposed: poor positioning, weakness under the highball, poor positioning on direct free kicks, poor keeping for long range shots. As his reactions went he started doing things he never used to like guessing which way an attacker was going and going to ground before the shot even came in, or rushing out and getting trapped in no mans land.

At first everyone gave him the benefit of the doubt, the defence was blamed, Moyes usually was blamed, it was a brilliant free kick by Gerrard etc. but slowly but surely it became undeniable, Howard was no longer a good keeper.

Similarly with Distin, his pace and power covered up really poor positioning. Ask yourself why was Distin always chasing attackers at full pelt to put in s last ditch challenge whereas Stones barely seems to get out of top gear but is everywhere intercepting? One has good positioning, the other doesn't. So one week the crowd see Aguero chased down by Distin and think he's a top class CB. They don't see that long diagonal cross that yet again we've conceded from because Distin has ended up halfway up the left wing.

If you want a game to display the point I'm making Newcastle at home 12/13 always sticks in my head. We'd started the season well playing good football and a poor Newcastle rolled into Goodison. We absolutely demolished them but some poor refereeing meant we only scored two in the game. Newcastle barely threatened but Osman slipped in midfield allowing Ba a shot on goal. Howard was on his backside before Ba had even hit it so their first shot of the game went in. We regained the lead only for in the last minute a Newcastle free kick from their keeper was punted down the pitch into a gaping hole where Distin should have been, Ba nipped in and rather than being forced to finish or round the keeper he hit it under Howard who for some reason thought a star jump was a good idea. We threw away two points that the rest of the team had more than earned, and that season especially they continued in this vein, draws bring snatched from wins. Surprise surprise we were single figure points from fourth that year. It always got blamed on Moyes but some of it was simple stuff a good keeper and good centreback would mop up. Mourinho hangs on in games all the time to 1-0 leads because he trusts his defence. Moyes was getting slated for sitting back because we had a pair of clowns at the back who got nervous after 85 mins if we were in the lead. Got to the point were one goal was never enough for us. It shouldn't be like that. The fans answer was always 'Moyes should score more', he should have but you can't win every game 3-0.

Being sentimental for good players is fine. At a time both players were good players for us, but this is the top of the most cut throat league in the world. Arsenal are discarding two better keepers than our first choice because an even better one became available. We're sticking with a keeper who was statistically the worst in the league last year in the hope he can recapture some old form which even at best was just good? That sort of stuff keeps you in 7th, or 11th.

Ok, I agree with some of this, but just want to point out that the year before last, Tim had a great year, was statistically one of the top 3 or 4 in the league, and we finished 5th. Then he went off and had a great World Cup. That's the Tim that Martinez is hoping shows up this coming season. Tim should probably be replaced, and I've said as much, but if Bobby were to replace every player that was [Poor language removed] last year, we'd have 8 new players in our first 11. We're not a club that can do that. So, provided he can recapture at least some form, we have other holes that need addressing first could be what our manager is thinking.

 

[Joey66]

Ok, I agree with some of this, but just want to point out that the year before last, Tim had a great year, was statistically one of the top 3 or 4 in the league, and we finished 5th. Then he went off and had a great World Cup. That's the Tim that Martinez is hoping shows up this coming season. Tim should probably be replaced, and I've said as much, but if Bobby were to replace every player that was [Poor language removed] last year, we'd have 8 new players in our first 11. We're not a club that can do that. So, provided he can recapture at least some form, we have other holes that need addressing first could be what our manager is thinking.

Tell me why RM drops a keeper who kept three clean sheets for Tim H to come back and have nightmares of performances - Leicester at home bing a prime example?

 

[carolinablue232]

Tell me why RM drops a keeper who kept three clean sheets for Tim H to come back and have nightmares of performances - Leicester at home bing a prime example?

Ask him, mate. Tim really was fine after he came back from injury if you're being honest with yourself. Bar the Leicester game of course.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

Not really, when Howard joined he was a good keeper for us because he had good reflexes, but over time they went and the weaknesses in his game he used to cover up started to be exposed: poor positioning, weakness under the highball, poor positioning on direct free kicks, poor keeping for long range shots. As his reactions went he started doing things he never used to like guessing which way an attacker was going and going to ground before the shot even came in, or rushing out and getting trapped in no mans land.

At first everyone gave him the benefit of the doubt, the defence was blamed, Moyes usually was blamed, it was a brilliant free kick by Gerrard etc. but slowly but surely it became undeniable, Howard was no longer a good keeper.

Similarly with Distin, his pace and power covered up really poor positioning. Ask yourself why was Distin always chasing attackers at full pelt to put in s last ditch challenge whereas Stones barely seems to get out of top gear but is everywhere intercepting? One has good positioning, the other doesn't. So one week the crowd see Aguero chased down by Distin and think he's a top class CB. They don't see that long diagonal cross that yet again we've conceded from because Distin has ended up halfway up the left wing.

If you want a game to display the point I'm making Newcastle at home 12/13 always sticks in my head. We'd started the season well playing good football and a poor Newcastle rolled into Goodison. We absolutely demolished them but some poor refereeing meant we only scored two in the game. Newcastle barely threatened but Osman slipped in midfield allowing Ba a shot on goal. Howard was on his backside before Ba had even hit it so their first shot of the game went in. We regained the lead only for in the last minute a Newcastle free kick from their keeper was punted down the pitch into a gaping hole where Distin should have been, Ba nipped in and rather than being forced to finish or round the keeper he hit it under Howard who for some reason thought a star jump was a good idea. We threw away two points that the rest of the team had more than earned, and that season especially they continued in this vein, draws bring snatched from wins. Surprise surprise we were single figure points from fourth that year. It always got blamed on Moyes but some of it was simple stuff a good keeper and good centreback would mop up. Mourinho hangs on in games all the time to 1-0 leads because he trusts his defence. Moyes was getting slated for sitting back because we had a pair of clowns at the back who got nervous after 85 mins if we were in the lead. Got to the point were one goal was never enough for us. It shouldn't be like that. The fans answer was always 'Moyes should score more', he should have but you can't win every game 3-0.

Being sentimental for good players is fine. At a time both players were good players for us, but this is the top of the most cut throat league in the world. Arsenal are discarding two better keepers than our first choice because an even better one became available. We're sticking with a keeper who was statistically the worst in the league last year in the hope he can recapture some old form which even at best was just good? That sort of stuff keeps you in 7th, or 11th.

So you're ignoring this sort of stuff then...

If Howard and Distin had been so poor for so long how come 3 of the last 4 seasons we've conceded the third least amount of goals in the league?

Are you saying Baines, Jags, Coleman and Neville really been that outstanding? and that they've managed to cover for so long with two players playing so poorly and it's only just showing?

 

[joey_macmo]

Tell me why RM drops a keeper who kept three clean sheets for Tim H to come back and have nightmares of performances - Leicester at home bing a prime example?

joey please stop going on about those games as if it was Banks in goal. West Brom had 0 shots on goal, he made 2 howlers in the opening 5 mins against palace & we had 79 men behind the ball in the Derby

 

[ilikecheese]

Not really, when Howard joined he was a good keeper for us because he had good reflexes, but over time they went and the weaknesses in his game he used to cover up started to be exposed: poor positioning, weakness under the highball, poor positioning on direct free kicks, poor keeping for long range shots. As his reactions went he started doing things he never used to like guessing which way an attacker was going and going to ground before the shot even came in, or rushing out and getting trapped in no mans land.

At first everyone gave him the benefit of the doubt, the defence was blamed, Moyes usually was blamed, it was a brilliant free kick by Gerrard etc. but slowly but surely it became undeniable, Howard was no longer a good keeper.

Similarly with Distin, his pace and power covered up really poor positioning. Ask yourself why was Distin always chasing attackers at full pelt to put in s last ditch challenge whereas Stones barely seems to get out of top gear but is everywhere intercepting? One has good positioning, the other doesn't. So one week the crowd see Aguero chased down by Distin and think he's a top class CB. They don't see that long diagonal cross that yet again we've conceded from because Distin has ended up halfway up the left wing.

If you want a game to display the point I'm making Newcastle at home 12/13 always sticks in my head. We'd started the season well playing good football and a poor Newcastle rolled into Goodison. We absolutely demolished them but some poor refereeing meant we only scored two in the game. Newcastle barely threatened but Osman slipped in midfield allowing Ba a shot on goal. Howard was on his backside before Ba had even hit it so their first shot of the game went in. We regained the lead only for in the last minute a Newcastle free kick from their keeper was punted down the pitch into a gaping hole where Distin should have been, Ba nipped in and rather than being forced to finish or round the keeper he hit it under Howard who for some reason thought a star jump was a good idea. We threw away two points that the rest of the team had more than earned, and that season especially they continued in this vein, draws bring snatched from wins. Surprise surprise we were single figure points from fourth that year. It always got blamed on Moyes but some of it was simple stuff a good keeper and good centreback would mop up. Mourinho hangs on in games all the time to 1-0 leads because he trusts his defence. Moyes was getting slated for sitting back because we had a pair of clowns at the back who got nervous after 85 mins if we were in the lead. Got to the point were one goal was never enough for us. It shouldn't be like that. The fans answer was always 'Moyes should score more', he should have but you can't win every game 3-0.

Being sentimental for good players is fine. At a time both players were good players for us, but this is the top of the most cut throat league in the world. Arsenal are discarding two better keepers than our first choice because an even better one became available. We're sticking with a keeper who was statistically the worst in the league last year in the hope he can recapture some old form which even at best was just good? That sort of stuff keeps you in 7th, or 11th.

But arguably he had his best season for us in 13/14.

I only skimmed that long post, so maybe I missed it...basing it off your first paragraph.

 

[Zatara]

If there were two polls on howard, one for Americans and one for anyone else they would have opposite results.

 

[USABlue]

If there were two polls on howard, one for Americans and one for anyone else they would have opposite results.

Didn't know Doug was American... Anyways I'm just not a fan of over the top revisionist evaluations of players regardless of their nationality.

 

[Greek Fisherman]

Victor Valdez anyone?