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Tom Cleverley

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PhilM said:
I think Cleverely will come back into the squad if he is fit, which against a stubborn Sunderland defence isn't probably the best option.
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I think it is, actually. Lennon really isn't a player whose going to break Sunderland down, and Mirallas is when we start two wingers against teams we need to take the onus against, we actually seem to become pretty lacklustre if we don't get an early goal.

Cleverley is a good link up player and his defensive capabilities allow Barkley a freer role as well.
 
Hopefully the long term replacement for Barry, Clecerley will probably retire though before Barry leaves our first team. Cleverley really could energise our tempo and creativity, crazy to waste him on the left wing to accommodate two holding mids at home to the worst side in the league.
 
BlueToff said:
Cleverley is a good link up player and his defensive capabilities allow Barkley a freer role as well.
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You're correct to some degree; he's certainly a good link up player who has capable defensive aspects to his game. He's also experienced.

Nevertheless, my concern is more to do with our overall style of play and in particular our tempo. I question how Cleverely will improve this.

Allardyce knows that his team have defensive frailties, and as such will most probably come (as usual) to stifle us with a rigid defence.

I am concerned that our slow build up play with struggle to unlock this: simply passing across in front of their lines as we often end up doing.

Now some may argue that this can negate the need for wingers if they're struggling to get behind, but personally I'd like to stretch them.

I'd like to see someone who can open up the play, try to get behind them and whip some balls into the box; play with a high tempo et al.

For all Cleverely's positives (I am happy he is here), I can't see him utilising these on the left as much as someone else may. It'll end up narrow.

Certainly he'll open up more space for Barkley and he'll cover at the back, but I can't see that being too much of an issue throughout the game.

As @Saint Domingo said, really he should be in the middle, but Martinez doesn't really like playing two wingers so I'm just talking needlessly.
 
PhilM said:
You're correct to some degree; he's certainly a good link up player who has capable defensive aspects to his game. He's also experienced.

Nevertheless, my concern is more to do with our overall style of play and in particular our tempo. I question how Cleverely will improve this.

Allardyce knows that his team have defensive frailties, and as such will most probably come (as usual) to stifle us with a rigid defence.

I am concerned that our slow build up play with struggle to unlock this: simply passing across in front of their lines as we often end up doing.

Now some may argue that this can negate the need for wingers if they're struggling to get behind, but personally I'd like to stretch them.

I'd like to see someone who can open up the play, try to get behind them and whip some balls into the box; play with a high tempo et al.

For all Cleverely's positives (I am happy he is here), I can't see him utilising these on the left as much as someone else may. It'll end up narrow.

Certainly he'll open up more space for Barkley and he'll cover at the back, but I can't see that being too much of an issue throughout the game.

As @Saint Domingo said, really he should be in the middle, but Martinez doesn't really like playing two wingers so I'm just talking needlessly.
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I agree to an extent as well. It's why a playmaker was key this summer - someone who can set the tempo and get our attacking players through against teams who will sit back against us.

You're right, Cleverley won't do this.

However, in the games he has played, he's moved the ball a lot quicker than either Barry or McCarthy, or even Barkley at times. This is really where his United 'upbringing' under the likes of Carrick and Scholes shows through, for me.

You can see it with Gibbo when he is at his best - sharp, incisive passing - not exactly a playmaker, but someone who instigates passing to players with that ability.
 

BlueToff said:
However, in the games he has played, he's moved the ball a lot quicker than either Barry or McCarthy, or even Barkley at times. This is really where his United 'upbringing' under the likes of Carrick and Scholes shows through, for me.

You can see it with Gibbo when he is at his best - sharp, incisive passing - not exactly a playmaker, but someone who instigates passing to players with that ability.
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Indeed and that's why I'd like him further back alongside either Barry or McCarthy, managing play with a good tempo and forward thinking.

For all the dislike for Ferguson he was an exceptional manager, and the fact he favoured Cleverly indicates he is a good talent!

Gibson is another good example: while Barry and McCarthy often look to pass sideways, he is always looking forward to make a move work.
 
PhilM said:
Indeed and that's why I'd like him further back alongside either Barry or McCarthy, managing play with a good tempo and forward thinking.

For all the dislike for Ferguson he was an exceptional manager, and the fact he favoured Cleverly indicates he is a good talent!

Gibson is another good example: while Barry and McCarthy often look to pass sideways, he is always looking forward to make a move work.
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I think that should be the plan eventually, and we also have Besic to go in there as well. However, he does fit in well on the left as more often than not he drifts inside to get more involved and allows the full-back to overlap. Galloway really is better going forward than he's been given credit for, and we also have Oviedo and of course Baines to come back in.
 
LinekersLegs said:
No player is ever exactly like another but Cleverley is far more the style of player that Baines like to work with than Mirallas who is the only one of the three wingers you list that is happy to play on the left.

It might not work out but there were promising signs of them forming a good relationship in limited preseason games, certainly more than we've seen Kev/Leighton manage - Kev seems to work better with either Coleman, Oviedo or even Garbutt.
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Appearances on the left wing by Mirallas can be counted in single figures, mainly due the fact that for his entire Everton career there have only ever been two people who can take his place on the right: Deulofeu and Lennon. It's therefore a bit hasty to judge his ability to play on the left based on such a small sample.

With regard to his ability to link up with Baines, you may have a point. But Baines isn't currently fit, so any inability of the two of them to link up is irrelevant in discussing who should start on the left in the next game. For me, it should be Kev - but I would play Barkley and Cleverly alongside each other in a 4-1-4-1, with McCarthy behind them.
 


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