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Tom Cleverley

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orly said:
On Aiden McGeady, January 2014

Similar level of player, about the same level of hyperbole.
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Personally I'm delighted that Martinez bigs up all our players as much as he can, and that he bigs up Everton in general, the history, tradition and size of the club whenever he has the opportunity. Why should any Everton supporter not want this from the clubs manager? He gets TV time, press columns and the club and its players get noticed. THIS IS PART OF WHAT I WANT FROM A MANAGER.
 
Steve Wigan said:
Personally I'm delighted that Martinez bigs up all our players as much as he can, and that he bigs up Everton in general, the history, tradition and size of the club whenever he has the opportunity. Why should any Everton supporter not want this from the clubs manager? He gets TV time, press columns and the club and its players get noticed. THIS IS PART OF WHAT I WANT FROM A MANAGER.
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Agree with the bit in bold.

But praise for players - or the value it has for their improvement - is diluted by its overuse. It's like a positive version of the boy who cried wolf.
 
orly said:
Nah, he's much like those Arsenal supporting biffs who play park football, wearing snoods / Under Armor / leggings pretending to be Thierry Henry, putting their fingers to their lips when they score. Weak imitation.

Here's a local rag savaging of Neville Mk II.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...tball-news/tom-cleverley-go-wrong-man-8313167



You can see that a mile off, even now.



Life imitating art here - if you watch Neville trying to imitate Beckham's technique as he used to chip-loft the ball out of play.

Shouldn't get anywhere near a fully fit Everton XI. Barely should be making the matchday squad.
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I really do not understand your hatred for him.

You're going on about his form of more than two years ago in a United side that slumped under Moyes.

He struggled under Lambert because Lambert insisted on playing slow turgid football.

Cleverley is thriving now under a manager that rates him highly (as he did under Sherwood at the back end of last year), and who encourages a player to look for a quick pass - something Cleverley is very good at.

He's played well for us and that's how I'm basing my opinion of him on. For some reason you'd rather base it on his form of two seasons ago rather than his form of the last year or so.

I don't think he's our best player, but you're vastly over-rating the currents stature of Everton if you believe that a player who has played in the Champions League, for England and won a title with United isn't good enough for us.
 
davek said:
Yeah, I wish he'd start slaughtering his own players rather than praise them and build up their confidence. What is he thinking of?
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Gentle, or subtle, build up of praise over time is surely better than daft hyperbole though
 

orly said:
Agree with the bit in bold.

But praise for players - or the value it has for their improvement - is diluted by its overuse. It's like a positive version of the boy who cried wolf.
Click to expand...
He's doing what he's done since day 1: petitioned for any of our players playing well to be rewarded with international recognition - something if it happens that also adds to their value.

I see no harm in it. Maybe it'll get stick from some divvy like Paul Merson or an Echo hack, but who gives a shiny one what trash like that think?
 
orly said:
Gentle, or subtle, build up of praise over time is surely better than daft hyperbole though
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This... nothing wrong with building up players, but in building up McGeady Martinez had to be taking the piss out of himself.

Nothing wrong with his positivity, but am not sure he believes some of the stuff he says sometimes - his positivity is contagious when its going good, but when everything is hitting the fan and he is still saying things are "phenomenal" and players are "in amazing moments" its a little hard to swallow.

Sometimes a bit of honesty would be refreshing.
 
BlueToff said:
I really do not understand your hatred for him.

You're going on about his form of more than two years ago in a United side that slumped under Moyes.

He struggled under Lambert because Lambert insisted on playing slow turgid football.

Cleverley is thriving now under a manager that rates him highly (as he did under Sherwood at the back end of last year), and who encourages a player to look for a quick pass - something Cleverley is very good at.

He's played well for us and that's how I'm basing my opinion of him on. For some reason you'd rather base it on his form of two seasons ago rather than his form of the last year or so.

I don't think he's our best player, but you're vastly over-rating the currents stature of Everton if you believe that a player who has played in the Champions League, for England and won a title with United isn't good enough for us.
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The easiest and most immediate rebuttal of that argument I can think of is Phil Neville, who wasn't good enough for this club, let alone as captain.

Would you put Phil Jones in this Everton first team? I wouldn't, but he fits this criteria.

Danny Welbeck? A man who Wenger said he wouldn't have bought if he had the final say (apparently was away from the Club when the deal happened)

Johnny Evans?

I don't blame Cleverley for making a career despite being a below average player. He's a fortunate product of a lack of identity within the English game - WE MUST FIND OUR OWN XAVI / INIESTA - which has given rise to overhyped tosh like him, Hendotosh and the Welsh Xavi. Poor, overhyped players. It's not hatred at all - it is backed up by his performances.

The media comment about him aping Cleverley is played out in full by Henderson - watch how he sets himself up before a free kick, an absolute jarg imitation of Ronaldo, wide stance, 'purposeful stare'... but what's the final product? Balloon over the bar.

Martinez himself said 'rather than have a Plan B, got to be better at Plan A'. Less imitation and more of a focus on the things we can actually do well.
 

how DARE he try to boost a player's confidence and make him feel wanted even when he's benched!

this is what GOT-on-aggregate transfer policy would be like:

other team: "how do you rate Howard?"

us: "Howard is eye-AIDS, he's worse than Hitler, the reprobate, he's the reason there are hungry children in Africa, he killed Christ! it's his fault I didn't grow up to be an astronaut, and Scarlett Johansson blocked me on twitter! troglodyte! oh... you wants to buy him? 200% market value then. wait... come back...."
 
abelard said:
how DARE he try to boost a player's confidence and make him feel wanted even when he's benched!

this is what GOT-on-aggregate transfer policy would be like:

Echo: "how do you rate Howard?"

Manager: "Howard is eye-AIDS, he's worse than Hitler, the reprobate, he's the reason there are hungry children in Africa, he killed Christ! it's his fault I didn't grow up to be an astronaut, and Scarlett Johansson blocked me on twitter! troglodyte! oh... MLS wants to buy him? 200% market value then. wait... come back...."
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With the greatest respect, it would be the easiest way for him to unite the fanbase on a single point if he said this; we'd all, to a man, think he he was funny but mental
 
orly said:
The easiest and most immediate rebuttal of that argument I can think of is Phil Neville, who wasn't good enough for this club, let alone as captain.

Would you put Phil Jones in this Everton first team? I wouldn't, but he fits this criteria.

Danny Welbeck? A man who Wenger said he wouldn't have bought if he had the final say (apparently was away from the Club when the deal happened)

Johnny Evans?

I don't blame Cleverley for making a career despite being a below average player. He's a fortunate product of a lack of identity within the English game - WE MUST FIND OUR OWN XAVI / INIESTA - which has given rise to overhyped tosh like him, Hendotosh and the Welsh Xavi. Poor, overhyped players. It's not hatred at all - it is backed up by his performances.

The media comment about him aping Cleverley is played out in full by Henderson - watch how he sets himself up before a free kick, an absolute jarg imitation of Ronaldo, wide stance, 'purposeful stare'... but what's the final product? Balloon over the bar.

Martinez himself said 'rather than have a Plan B, got to be better at Plan A'. Less imitation and more of a focus on the things we can actually do well.
Click to expand...

No, I wouldn't want Jones or Evans as first-teamers. But Cleverley is better than both of them?

As for Welbeck, I've never heard/seen Wenger say anything of the sorts. Welbeck went straight into Wenger's side as soon as he bought him and he has always had complete control over transfers. Unless you can provide proof to the contrary? I also happen to think Welbeck would be a fantastic signing for us...

I don't think Cleverley is over-hyped at all? Martinez is prone to a hyperbole or ten, but it can't do Cleverley's confidence any harm - and it's quite clear he's a player who thrives when he has the full support of a manager.
 

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