Tom Cleverley

[chazzle_dazzle]

how DARE he try to boost a player's confidence and make him feel wanted even when he's benched!

this is what GOT-on-aggregate transfer policy would be like:

other team: "how do you rate Howard?"

us: "Howard is eye-AIDS, he's worse than Hitler, the reprobate, he's the reason there are hungry children in Africa, he killed Christ! it's his fault I didn't grow up to be an astronaut, and Scarlett Johansson blocked me on twitter! troglodyte! oh... you wants to buy him? 200% market value then. wait... come back...."

Hahaha i wouldn't go that far but "Tim hasn't been in a good moment of form and despite his experience has been playing not to the level he expects" would probably make most people happy - as its true.

Instead of "tim is a in a great moment of form and his experience is vital to us" - howard comes back in concedes 3 and shows his arse to the Street end.

 

[orly]

No, I wouldn't want Jones or Evans as first-teamers. But Cleverley is better than both of them?

As for Welbeck, I've never heard/seen Wenger say anything of the sorts. Welbeck went straight into Wenger's side as soon as he bought him and he has always had complete control over transfers. Unless you can provide proof to the contrary? I also happen to think Welbeck would be a fantastic signing for us...

I don't think Cleverley is over-hyped at all? Martinez is prone to a hyperbole or ten, but it can't do Cleverley's confidence any harm - and it's quite clear he's a player who thrives when he has the full support of a manager.

Here you go mate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29156465

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger says he would not have signed striker Danny Welbeck on transfer deadline day had he been in the country.

The 23-year-old left boyhood club Manchester United in a £16m switch to the Gunners while Wenger was away in Rome for a charity game.

Wenger said: "If I'd stayed at home he wouldn't be here now."

See this is where players like Cleverley and Welbeck have succeeded - doing very little without ever really having to justify it. Wilshere is the same

Years Team Apps† (Gls)†
2008–2014 Manchester United 92 (20)
2010 → Preston North End (loan) 8 (2)
2010–2011 → Sunderland (loan) 26 (6)
2014– Arsenal 25 (4)

That's the goalscoring record of Welbeck the striker. Awful when you look at the sides he has played for.

By no identifiable metric are these good or effective players.

And then you see players like Barkley who can do it getting dogs abuse earlier in the season and it just doesn't make any sense.

 

[bicycleheader]

Yeah, I wish he'd start slaughtering his own players rather than praise them and build up their confidence. What is he thinking of?

he could delegate that down to you David

 

[davek]

he could delegate that down to you David

I wouldn't say making the relevant observation that Baines is not in as good form as Oviedo is slaughtering.

 

[BlueToff]

Here you go mate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/29156465

Fair enough on that point.

Though looking into it that really just seems to indicate that Wenger did not want to pay the price that they did?

Anyway, something must have changed pretty quickly after that, as Welbeck started near enough every game for them when he was fit.

 

[abelard]

Hahaha i wouldn't go that far but "Tim hasn't been in a good moment of form and despite his experience has been playing not to the level he expects" would probably make most people happy - as its true

but why should the manager appeal to the short-term satisfaction of internet whiners? especially with a player we are obviously going to sell?

"would you like to buy this basket of fruit? it is well past its prime, it smells bad, nobody else will take it, it's surrounded by flies. please buy it!" - is not the most effective sales pitch

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

but why should the manager appeal to the short-term satisfaction of internet whiners? especially with a player we are obviously going to sell?

"would you like to buy this basket of fruit? it is well past its prime, it smells bad, nobody else will take it, it's surrounded by flies. please buy it!" - is not the most effective sales pitch

Its not just internet whiners tho.......

I agree to a degree with what your saying, but the lack of criticism anywhere and accountability is pretty evident at the club. Howard has been in poor form, everyone everywhere has seen it - but its took and "injury" to drop him. The test to see if he really was dropped is if he goes straight back in when "recovered".

 

[oldblue]

These stats are pretty damming

Number of Anti Cleverley posts using references to fans opinion at Man U
257

Number of assists to anti Cleverley feelings by making up things said about him that weren't
95

Number of posts ignored pointing out errors in anti Cleverley facts
153

Number of comparisons to irrelevant players
53

Number of times his performances are belittled by stating Ross has more assists
21

Number of times 'but it's not good enough for Everton' is used when posters backed into a corner by facts. 852

Number of times certain anti Cleverley posters (you know who you are) show any clear sign they've actually watched a football game
1.35

Number of people won round by this onslaught
0

Links to follow

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

These stats are pretty damming

Number of Anti Cleverley posts using references to fans opinion at Man U
257

Number of assists to anti Cleverley feelings by making up things said about him that weren't
95

Number of posts ignored pointing out errors in anti Cleverley facts
153

Number of comparisons to irrelevant players
53

Number of times his performances are belittled by stating Ross has more assists
21

Number of times 'but it's not good enough for Everton' is used when posters backed into a corner by facts. 852

Number of times certain anti Cleverley posters (you know who you are) show any clear sign they've actually watched a football game
1.35

Number of people won round by this onslaught
0

Links to follow

I was going to post a picture of Benitez in relation to the facts... but i couldn't bear to look at that bellend every time i got to this page...!

 

[davek]

I'm not sure that was a very appropriate conversation for The Echo's sports editor to be having about the Everton manager today in twitter. Do his employers or Everton FC know he's spouting this stuff and encouraging others to?


10h10 hours ago
David Prentice ‏@prenno
How much is Tom Cleverley worth to Everton? According to his manager, a phenomenal figure! http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cant-put-price-tom-cleverley-10854077 … pic.twitter.com/uSbuv2rRzC

7h7 hours ago
Gareth Watts ‏@Gareth_Watts11
@prenno a good player. Adds to the team, pleased we've got him. But 'one of most sensational in premier league history' is stretching it.

7h7 hours ago
David Prentice ‏@prenno
@Gareth_Watts11 You're being very kind Gareth. Some would suggest talking tosh!

THUNDERTANK– ‏@THEE_BIGPERM
@prenno @Gareth_Watts11 I'm convinced Martinez is mental. Proper mental.
1:07 AM - 8 Feb 2016

 

[oldblue]

I was going to post a picture of Benitez in relation to the facts... but i couldn't bear to look at that bellend every time i got to this page...!

That would have won me round. Or sent me over the edge

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

I'm not sure that was a very appropriate conversation for The Echo's sports editor to be having about the Everton manager today in twitter. Do his employers or Everton FC know he's spouting this stuff and encouraging others to?


10h10 hours ago
David Prentice ‏@prenno
How much is Tom Cleverley worth to Everton? According to his manager, a phenomenal figure! http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cant-put-price-tom-cleverley-10854077 … pic.twitter.com/uSbuv2rRzC

7h7 hours ago
Gareth Watts ‏@Gareth_Watts11
@prenno a good player. Adds to the team, pleased we've got him. But 'one of most sensational in premier league history' is stretching it.

7h7 hours ago
David Prentice ‏@prenno
@Gareth_Watts11 You're being very kind Gareth. Some would suggest talking tosh!

THUNDERTANK– ‏@THEE_BIGPERM
@prenno @Gareth_Watts11 I'm convinced Martinez is mental. Proper mental.
1:07 AM - 8 Feb 2016

Can't complain that the Echo don't criticise the club and then complain when a journo shares his slightly critical opinion of the manager.

 

[oldblue]

I'm not sure that was a very appropriate conversation for The Echo's sports editor to be having about the Everton manager today in twitter. Do his employers or Everton FC know he's spouting this stuff and encouraging others to?


10h10 hours ago
David Prentice ‏@prenno
How much is Tom Cleverley worth to Everton? According to his manager, a phenomenal figure! http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cant-put-price-tom-cleverley-10854077 … pic.twitter.com/uSbuv2rRzC

7h7 hours ago
Gareth Watts ‏@Gareth_Watts11
@prenno a good player. Adds to the team, pleased we've got him. But 'one of most sensational in premier league history' is stretching it.

7h7 hours ago
David Prentice ‏@prenno
@Gareth_Watts11 You're being very kind Gareth. Some would suggest talking tosh!

THUNDERTANK– ‏@THEE_BIGPERM
@prenno @Gareth_Watts11 I'm convinced Martinez is mental. Proper mental.
1:07 AM - 8 Feb 2016

That's pretty shocking. There's a future for him with the Tories pr team

 

[oldblue]

Can't complain that the Echo don't criticise the club and then complain when a journo shares his slightly critical opinion of the manager.

Except he's clearly got access to what Martinez said and chose to misquote him to make a point.
It's one thing the young kids on here doing it but he's a senior journalist

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

Except he's clearly got access to what Martinez said and chose to misquote him to make a point.
It's one thing the young kids on here doing it but he's a senior journalist

He's just playing on the fact that Martinez says "phenomenal" constantly.

I don't even agree with the journo, but this isn't worth criticising him for.