2018/19 Tom Davies

[mkrudden]

When Luka Modric was 20 he was on loan at Inter Zapresic making 18 appearances in the season.

Toni Kroos at 20 was on loan at Bayer Leverkusen after having spent only one season in the first team at Bayern.

David Silva at 20 was on loan at Celta Vigo after spending the previous season on loan at Eibar.

Zidane at 20 had moved from Cannes to Bordeaux.

How come 4 of the best midfielders in European football in their respective periods have been allowed to be poor and inconsistent at 20 but Tom Davies isn’t? How come they all developed and improved past the age of 20 (in some cases a substantial amount) but it’s assumed by some that Tom Davies doesn’t have the tools to. Some might say ‘see he needs a loan’ but then you get back to the question of why messrs Koeman Allardyce Unsworth and Silva think differently and keep playing him in the first team of a top half premier league side.

An excellent point.

Unfortunately during the Martinez era when we had either Barkley, Stones, Lukaku or Deulofeu etc performing poorly, you chose to lambast the manager rather than be considering of the inconsistency which comes with being a young footballer.

I tried many a time to tell you but you wouldn't have it.

Now you're defending the players and not even discussing the management / their involvement in Davies' development.

Because he's one of your faves.

Poor from you SD.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I'm happy to be proven wrong, but you can't argue that Tom Davies is good enough to be a first choice Premier League player when after 3 seasons he still isn't.

3 seasons?

You mean half of that surely. A season and a half. Doubt if he played much more than a total of 180 minutes premier football before that. Plus the whole of last season was a disaster in which nobody but our keeper excelled. You can't judge his development, or rather lack of, on last year. Well you can, but it would be extremely unfair to do so.

Anyway I asked you a question earlier that you didn't answer. He's played a part in 90+ per cent of premier games since January last season, starting the majority of them. During that time we finished 7th and 8th in the premier league. Tell me how that doesn't make him good enough to ever play for any premier league team?

 

[Saint Domingo]

An excellent point.

Unfortunately during the Martinez era when we had either Barkley, Stones, Lukaku or Deulofeu etc performing poorly, you chose to lambast the manager rather than be considering of the inconsistency which comes with being a young footballer.

I tried many a time to tell you but you wouldn't have it.

Now you're defending the players and not even discussing the management / their involvement in Davies' development.

Because he's one of your faves.

Poor from you SD.

I lambasted Martinez for the balance of his squad (young kids and old men) and mostly for his results. As a result of that we had rank inconsistency over 2 seasons. That’s completely different than defending Tom Davies’ place in this squad. I never said that those players you mentioned shouldn’t be in our squad. If Silva starts posting the worst home record in our history then i’ll criticise him as well.

 

[Kidkojak]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...w-he-can-kick-on-at-everton-under-marco-silva

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/the-tom-davies-debate-everton-15145035

https://royalbluemersey.sbnation.co...silva-tom-davies-everton-pressing-news-latest

There is 3 separate articles clearly discussing what me and most others are seeing right now.
My point being that the people coming to his defense and some seeming to get really riled over it as if we are all blind to something you arent seeing.
Like i said in earlier posts there may be a good player in there i hope so i really do but my gut tells me he hasnt quite got it, Again just one opinion i am not trying to bring the lad down just my own amateur judgement from someone who has watched this game all my life and ran teams all ages and nearly got involved with some part time scouting thrown into boot.
Its just a lot of these posts are so vociferously defending him like we are literally outside Finch Farm with pitch forks and not just chatting casually on a forum.
Again i invite anyone to come down to Goodison and watch the crowds reaction its a million times worse that is where the main issue lies not with some people expressing there opinions on here.

This is one Snippet from the third article i have listed above yes its from Royal Blue Mersey probably a fan post but here raises some interesting stats:

Tom Davies is not a good Premier League player.

Just gonna give that a minute to breath.

We all love how hard Tom plays, we all love his energy and the fact that he’s a homegrown product who brought almost instant heroics once he broke into the first team. Unfortunately, since that time he’s had more than enough game time to show that his game just does not bring a lot of consistent value added to the pitch.

Tom’s possession loss numbers are startling, between unsuccessful touches and simply being dispossessed he lost the ball 5.5 times per 90 minutes last season. For context, Morgan Schneiderlin, the best player that Everton fans love to hate, averages 1.6 per 90. Idrissa Gueye is at 2.4.

Tom only completes half his dribbles (Gana completes about 2⁄3 of his) and 78% of his passes (Gana is around 85%). Davies also commits more fouls than Gana with fewer successful defensive actions.

I really hope he gets the chance to go out on loan and push forward that glimpse of talent we all witnessed agains Man City.

 

[mkrudden]

I lambasted Martinez for the balance of his squad (young kids and old men) and mostly for his results. As a result of that we had rank inconsistency over 2 seasons. That’s completely different than defending Tom Davies’ place in this squad. I never said that those players you mentioned shouldn’t be in our squad. If Silva starts posting the worst home record in our history then i’ll criticise him as well.

No my friend, you're calling for patience with Davies because his poor form can be explained by his age and inexperience.

When one of our young players under Martinez didn't play well, you blamed Martinez

You can't have it both ways.

 

[mkrudden]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...w-he-can-kick-on-at-everton-under-marco-silva

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/the-tom-davies-debate-everton-15145035

https://royalbluemersey.sbnation.co...silva-tom-davies-everton-pressing-news-latest

There is 3 separate articles clearly discussing what me and most others are seeing right now.
My point being that the people coming to his defense and some seeming to get really riled over it as if we are all blind to something you arent seeing.
Like i said in earlier posts there may be a good player in there i hope so i really do but my gut tells me he hasnt quite got it, Again just one opinion i am not trying to bring the lad down just my own amateur judgement from someone who has watched this game all my life and ran teams all ages and nearly got involved with some part time scouting thrown into boot.
Its just a lot of these posts are so vociferously defending him like we are literally outside Finch Farm with pitch forks and not just chatting casually on a forum.
Again i invite anyone to come down to Goodison and watch the crowds reaction its a million times worse that is where the main issue lies not with some people expressing there opinions on here.

This is one Snippet from the third article i have listed above yes its from Royal Blue Mersey probably a fan post but here raises some interesting stats:

Tom Davies is not a good Premier League player.

Just gonna give that a minute to breath.

We all love how hard Tom plays, we all love his energy and the fact that he’s a homegrown product who brought almost instant heroics once he broke into the first team. Unfortunately, since that time he’s had more than enough game time to show that his game just does not bring a lot of consistent value added to the pitch.

Tom’s possession loss numbers are startling, between unsuccessful touches and simply being dispossessed he lost the ball 5.5 times per 90 minutes last season. For context, Morgan Schneiderlin, the best player that Everton fans love to hate, averages 1.6 per 90. Idrissa Gueye is at 2.4.

Tom only completes half his dribbles (Gana completes about 2⁄3 of his) and 78% of his passes (Gana is around 85%). Davies also commits more fouls than Gana with fewer successful defensive actions.

I really hope he gets the chance to go out on loan and push forward that glimpse of talent we all witnessed agains Man City.

Yeah it's a rubbish comparison mate, Morgan / Idrissa to Davies.

Davies plays and receives the ball further up the pitch, in congestion, where there is less time on the ball. He's expected to provide energy and link play, like he did for DCL's goal in the league cup.
Schneiderlin picks up the ball from the CBs and, unless we play City, is under no duress at all and even then typically passes sideways.

Compare apples with applies for a fair debate.

 

[Kidkojak]

Yeah it's a rubbish comparison mate, Morgan / Idrissa to Davies.

Davies plays and receives the ball further up the pitch, in congestion, where there is less time on the ball. He's expected to provide energy and link play, like he did for DCL's goal in the league cup.
Schneiderlin picks up the ball from the CBs and, unless we play City, is under no duress at all and even then typically passes sideways.

Compare apples with applies for a fair debate.

He is a Central Midfielder They are Central Midfielders and are all judged on the same few stats he mostly plays alongside them your opinion that its a rubbish comparison is ridiculous.

 

[mkrudden]

He is a Central Midfielder They are Central Midfielders and are all judged on the same few stats he mostly plays alongside them your opinion that its a rubbish comparison is ridiculous.

So genuine question:

would you compare Alli v Kante?

or even Kante v Jorginho?

or Matic v Pogba?

or Fernandinho v Kevin De Bruyne?

Or, as is more likely, there are distinctions between just the title "CM" based on their role in the team?

 

[carolinablue232]

Likewise, I'd imagine it is incredibly obvious and thus not worth stating.

Seemed like a certain poster needs to hear it if you’ve been following.

 

[carolinablue232]

Did I imagine all those games last season when Schneiderlin was benched and Davies played?

Besides they don’t even play the same roles so I have no idea why people compare these. Davies role is the box to box player. There’s only really Gueye who also plays this position but he’s a different profile of player as he’s better at intercepting and breaking up play rather than trying to build attacks.

If TRYING to build attacks and failing at it is what Davies brings, then I think you’ve found the problem yourself. His passing had been terrible.

 

[carolinablue232]

I can't answer for others but I would have thought the answer was pretty obvious really - they weren't impacting Everton's first team.

I know there are some who are saying Davies will always be useless but that's not what most are saying at all. The majority of comments are people saying he's not good enough to be playing in our first team right now. Yes he can improve, but this is a forum where people will comment on his performances over the last year or so, which have, to be blunt, been at best average and at worst appalling.

I don't think anybody's saying he's not allowed to be inconsistent or poor, just that they'd rather it wasn't while he's in the centre of our midfield. Seems fairly self explanatory to me.

Think you nailed it

 

[Saint Domingo]

No my friend, you're calling for patience with Davies because his poor form can be explained by his age and inexperience.

When one of our young players under Martinez didn't play well, you blamed Martinez

You can't have it both ways.

I don’t think Davies is playing that badly so I don’t agree that I’m defending his poor form, he’s deserved his starts in our midfield. The entire team didn’t play well under Martinez in his last 2 seasons so I blamed him. If the team was performing but a 20 year old wasn’t playing well then I’d be happy to be patient with him. When the whole team doesn’t perform that’s the managers fault which was undoubtedly Martienz’s.

 

[mkrudden]

I don’t think Davies is playing that badly so I don’t agree that I’m defending his poor form, he’s deserved his starts in our midfield. The entire team didn’t play well under Martinez in his last 2 seasons so I blamed him. If the team was performing but a 20 year old wasn’t playing well then I’d be happy to be patient with him. When the whole team doesn’t perform that’s the managers fault which was undoubtedly Martienz’s.

But if , due to finances, the team is made up of mostly inexperienced prospects then surely you've got an issue?
Tying yourself in knots here mate!

 

[ArtetaMoney]

3 seasons?

You mean half of that surely. A season and a half. Doubt if he played much more than a total of 180 minutes premier football before that. Plus the whole of last season was a disaster in which nobody but our keeper excelled. You can't judge his development, or rather lack of, on last year. Well you can, but it would be extremely unfair to do so.

Anyway I asked you a question earlier that you didn't answer. He's played a part in 90+ per cent of premier games since January last season, starting the majority of them. During that time we finished 7th and 8th in the premier league. Tell me how that doesn't make him good enough to ever play for any premier league team?

Is this not his 3rd season? (Serious question).

I’ve stated on here why I believe he’s played so many games. Do you believe that had he not played them games that we would have finished lower?

From watching him week in, week out, I have come to that conclusion. Again, as I said earlier, I’m more than happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Saint Domingo]

But if , due to finances, the team is made up of mostly inexperienced prospects then surely you've got an issue?
Tying yourself in knots here mate!

There’s a tolerance that fans can take. Two bottom half finishes and the worst home record in our history is outside that tolerance he had to be fired regardless of my views on him.