2018/19 Tom Davies

[Kidkojak]

Well Kante and Jorginho are both deep-lying CMs. Yet one's tasked with buzzing round the pitch and the other staying in shape, marking space and looking to intercept. Kante's job is to get it to Jorginho and the latter's job is to play subtle, forward passes. So if you compare them on one metric, let's say, their tackling stats, Kante would come out on top because that's his role and quality. Jorginho would out on top if creative/ forward passing accuracy was the metric because that's his role and quality. The two together are the partnership.

It was the same with Fabregas and Kante. Are you going to compare those two? Both CM, both not "in the hole".

It was the same with us when we had Barry and McCarthy.

I'd also say that KDB wasn't and isn't a player who operates behind the striker. The old "Quarter Back" reference was made many a time last season because, like against us, he was playing really deep. His role is to distribute though, not to tackle.

So what you're saying is Davies and Morgan can be compared in relation to their passing yet one passes it under no pressure as the link between the two CBs (Schneiderlin) and the other is receiving the ball, back to goal sometimes, with someone up his backside, in a crowded midfield and who's job it is to pass forwards and be creative. Isn't it obvious that Davies' passing stats wouldn't be as good? especially then factoring in his age?

Come on mate, this is crazy!

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ul/25/chelsea-maurizio-sarri-line-up-jorginho

Kante was deployed further up field this season a debate all pundits have been discussing from MOTD to ESPN and SKY for the first few matches because he wasn't just sitting he was getting forward and linking up as was previously Foreseen in the article i have posted above.
He hasn't Played as a deep lying midfielder solely this season and still has a pass completion rating of 91.8 percent and scored a goal to boot so are we still not allowed to compare them either.

Also i assume that your saying we should then compare Davies to Jorginho then?
In that case his pass completion is 92.1 percent he also makes 2 tackles a game to Kantes 2.5
There pass completion is near enough the same there tackles are not far off the same Jorginho has more defensive clearanceshe also has more blocks.
They have both scored a goal Kante has slightly better Dribbling stats do you see where i am going with this.

 

[Kidkojak]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ul/25/chelsea-maurizio-sarri-line-up-jorginho

Kante was deployed further up field this season a debate all pundits have been discussing from MOTD to ESPN and SKY for the first few matches because he wasn't just sitting he was getting forward and linking up as was previously Foreseen in the article i have posted above.
He hasn't Played as a deep lying midfielder solely this season and still has a pass completion rating of 91.8 percent and scored a goal to boot so are we still not allowed to compare them either.

Also i assume that your saying we should then compare Davies to Jorginho then?
In that case his pass completion is 92.1 percent he also makes 2 tackles a game to Kantes 2.5
There pass completion is near enough the same there tackles are not far off the same Jorginho has more defensive clearances he also has more blocks.
They have both scored a goal Kante has slightly better Dribbling stats do you see where i am going with this.

Your original argument was that we cant compare midfielders because Kante sits and Jorginho Buzzes around yet that is not the case this season Kante at times is further ahead of Jorginho they have been interchangeable that is also born out into how completely similar there Stats are as i have previously stated.
So yes we can compare them.

Come on Mate!!!!

 

[Barnfred 55]

Fair play for the time you’ve taken there. Suppose we will see with Davies, but he will always split opinions. I personally don’t think he will play much once the injured players are anywhere near full fitness. I could be wrong though.

Didn't take me that long mate. Only went back a week. The hardest part was remembering the ones I'd already quoted.

I think you're right he'll get less game time when everyone's fit. That's good. We need the manager to work on his week area's and then give him managed game time against the right opposition to see if he's improving. Same with all our young players.

We need to see steady improvement over the next couple of years so we're in a position were we can rotate him or introduce him frm the bench without it affecting our performance. Hopefully that will come, but if he hasn't improved by the time he's 22/23 then we accept that fact that he's not going to be good enough to take us where we want to be. But he's shown already that he's good enough to play in the premier

The thing with Davies, and all our young players, is that they haven't worked with a manager who coaches players, not just tactics. I'm hoping Silva is that manager and he can bring on some of our young lads and in the process save us a bomb in transfer fees.

 

[Kidkojak]

Didn't take me that long mate. Only went back a week. The hardest part was remembering the ones I'd already quoted.

I think you're right he'll get less game time when everyone's fit. That's good. We need the manager to work on his week area's and then give him managed game time against the right opposition to see if he's improving. Same with all our young players.

We need to see steady improvement over the next couple of years so we're in a position were we can rotate him or introduce him frm the bench without it affecting our performance. Hopefully that will come, but if he hasn't improved by the time he's 22/23 then we accept that fact that he's not going to be good enough to take us where we want to be. But he's shown already that he's good enough to play in the premier

The thing with Davies, and all our young players, is that they haven't worked with a manager who coaches players, not just tactics. I'm hoping Silva is that manager and he can bring on some of our young lads and in the process save us a bomb in transfer fees.

Totally agree well put.

 

[Papa Shango]

He is a Central Midfielder They are Central Midfielders and are all judged on the same few stats he mostly plays alongside them your opinion that its a rubbish comparison is ridiculous.

For some reason my alerts said this was quoting one of my posts, which is odd...

However seeing as I am here, judging any footballer on stats is a bit daft anyway.

 

[Kidkojak]

For some reason my alerts said this was quoting one of my posts, which is odd...

However seeing as I am here, judging any footballer on stats is a bit daft anyway.

Considering thats how a lot of footballers are judged and we bought Gana on the recommendation of a Scout using a particular Statistic even though he was being overlooked in a poor side you must be correct Papa ehh.

Bit of a Daft Comment wasnt it.

 

[Lanolin]

That's not quite true mate. I've gone back a week and picked out these posts (I don't think I've duplicated any posters) by people who think he isn't and won't be good enough for us.

There are probably an equal number of posters, like me, defending him or asking posters to give him time. And there are a small number who, like yourself, are critical of the player but not yet prepared to write him off completely as there is still a chance he can come good.

By contrast I didn't come across one post that says he's good enough to start every game and should be playing for England.

I haven't even picked out the worst posts mate. I just picked out the first post by each person writing him off, an I probably missed one or two of those.

But the vast majority of those just back up my point? It sort of supports what @Kidkojak said earlier, that some people are so determined to defend him that they're maybe seeing things that aren't really there.

Only one of the 21 posts you've quoted says he won't be good enough in future, with one other saying 'I believe' he won't be good enough and another saying 'probably won't be good enough for top 6'. I have no issue with people putting forward an opinion in that way, they're not stating as fact just being honest enough to put a view forward and risk being vaulted. The rest are pretty much exactly what you're saying they're not - people talking about the present. You've even included some posts where people are specifically talking about his performance in one game. When people say "he's not good enough". "he hasn't progressed" or "I don't know what he's good at" they're talking about him right now, playing in midfield for us. We're Everton fans who want Everton to do well, and as I know you agree yourself, Tom isn't really looking like he's ready to help us do that just yet. Because of that, there will be negative comments about him, like the ones you've quoted, but I'm sure many of those people aren't completely ruling out the possibility that in 3/4 years time he'll be much better.

I don't expect everyone to caveat their posts with 'but I realise he's only 20 and might improve', any more than I expect everyone to say 'but I appreciate he's only played 3 games' when talking about Richarlison. We come on and talk about things as they are, not as they might be in the future.

 

[Kidkojak]

Been some really good discussions on here today well done chaps and gals COYB.

 

[ArtetaMoney]

Didn't take me that long mate. Only went back a week. The hardest part was remembering the ones I'd already quoted.

I think you're right he'll get less game time when everyone's fit. That's good. We need the manager to work on his week area's and then give him managed game time against the right opposition to see if he's improving. Same with all our young players.

We need to see steady improvement over the next couple of years so we're in a position were we can rotate him or introduce him frm the bench without it affecting our performance. Hopefully that will come, but if he hasn't improved by the time he's 22/23 then we accept that fact that he's not going to be good enough to take us where we want to be. But he's shown already that he's good enough to play in the premier

The thing with Davies, and all our young players, is that they haven't worked with a manager who coaches players, not just tactics. I'm hoping Silva is that manager and he can bring on some of our young lads and in the process save us a bomb in transfer fees.

I think even his strongest critics are hoping for that last bit mate.

 

[Barnfred 55]

But the vast majority of those just back up my point? It sort of supports what @Kidkojak said earlier, that some people are so determined to defend him that they're maybe seeing things that aren't really there.

Only one of the 21 posts you've quoted says he won't be good enough in future, with one other saying 'I believe' he won't be good enough and another saying 'probably won't be good enough for top 6'. I have no issue with people putting forward an opinion in that way, they're not stating as fact just being honest enough to put a view forward and risk being vaulted. The rest are pretty much exactly what you're saying they're not - people talking about the present. You've even included some posts where people are specifically talking about his performance in one game. When people say "he's not good enough". "he hasn't progressed" or "I don't know what he's good at" they're talking about him right now, playing in midfield for us. We're Everton fans who want Everton to do well, and as I know you agree yourself, Tom isn't really looking like he's ready to help us do that just yet. Because of that, there will be negative comments about him, like the ones you've quoted, but I'm sure many of those people aren't completely ruling out the possibility that in 3/4 years time he'll be much better.

I don't expect everyone to caveat their posts with 'but I realise he's only 20 and might improve', any more than I expect everyone to say 'but I appreciate he's only played 3 games' when talking about Richarlison. We come on and talk about things as they are, not as they might be in the future.

Mate, we've had some disagreements in the past but this post takes the biscuit.

I only went through the first 10 posts I quoted and came up with this

"The only thing he has going for him is his age. If he improves his stamina he could possibly develop into a lee Cattermole"

"If anything, it shows that he doesn't have the mentality for a Premier League player. he's abysmal"

"Noodle head get's a pass because he's from Liverpool. Doesn't take away from the fact that he's terrible at football"

"I can only see Davies as a nothing player at the moment. He is young but I don't see any flashes of brilliance. He is not even close to being adequate for us"

"I think people need to work out that our academy players are never going to be anything other than average. Davies will never be more than a squad player"

"Not allowed to say a young scouse lad is utter pony mate"

"He has not one stand out attribute"

"He's just not good enough and probably never going to be good enough"

"I don't know what he is good at. here is no quality in him that I can see will make him excel in the future"

"Skate boarding. Haircuts. And buying clothes. That's about it"

I'm pretty sure I could have gone through the other 11 quotes and found something similar.

If you really think those comments back up your point we might as well end this conversation now mate.

 

[Lanolin]

Mate, we've had some disagreements in the past but this post takes the biscuit.

I only went through the first 10 posts I quoted and came up with this

"The only thing he has going for him is his age. If he improves his stamina he could possibly develop into a lee Cattermole"

"If anything, it shows that he doesn't have the mentality for a Premier League player. he's abysmal"

"Noodle head get's a pass because he's from Liverpool. Doesn't take away from the fact that he's terrible at football"

"I can only see Davies as a nothing player at the moment. He is young but I don't see any flashes of brilliance. He is not even close to being adequate for us"

"I think people need to work out that our academy players are never going to be anything other than average. Davies will never be more than a squad player"

"Not allowed to say a young scouse lad is utter pony mate"

"He has not one stand out attribute"

"He's just not good enough and probably never going to be good enough"

"I don't know what he I good at. here is no quality in him that I can see will make him excel in the future"

"Skate boarding. Haircuts. And buying clothes. That's about it"

I'm pretty sure I could have gone trough the other 11 quotes and found something similar.

If you think those comments back up your point we might as well end this conversation now mate.

My point was that people are talking about his level now rather than in the future. To prove me wrong you’ve posted links to people saying ‘he IS (note my emphasis on the present tense there. That is, the tense we use to describe things as they are now) rubbish at football’, ‘he HAS (note my...nevermind) not one stand out attribute’ ‘I can only see Davies as a nothing player AT THE MOMENT’ and someone taking the mickey out of his dress sense, and you have the temerity to say i’m the one taking the biscuit!

 

[BlueInNZ]

I'll be at the game on Sunday. Only second game I've seen in 11 years, transport a bit tricky from NZ.

I hope he plays. I've seen most games since he broke into the first team. I hear what his critics here are saying but he is a player I'm looking forward to watching. I think he will have a big influence in this game.

 

[marcus]

You come back in 3-5 years time and say sorry then if he doesn’t improve.

Tom Davies midfield aged 20 Everton premiership player & England U21 international...

If you honestly think this lad will not improve in the next 3-5 years then I am quite frankly flabbergasted....

The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement...

 

[Lanolin]

Tom Davies midfield aged 20 Everton premiership player & England U21 international...

If you honestly think this lad will not improve in the next 3-5 years then I am quite frankly flabbergasted....

The biggest room in the world is the room for improvement...

Jack Rodwell midfield aged 20 Everton premier league player and full England international. Now 27 and been released by a league one side.

Davies can get better, but to suggest it’s a given shows a complete lack of understanding not just of football but of people. People can reach their potential very quickly and then stagnate, it happens in all walks of life. I hope Tom kicks on and becomes great, but there’s a chance he’s already peaked, like many before him.

 

[BlueInNZ]

You come back in 3-5 years time and say sorry then if he doesn’t improve.

One of the most ridiculous posts I've seen on here. Well done.