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2018/19 Tom Davies

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Kidkojak said:
Haha yes you do we can get back to him at the end of this reply.

And the very fact it even in your opinion a massive sceptic can give someone a vague idea or let them form a reason for further pursuit is still a good use isn't it.
The amount of clubs that use football manager based stats is a great point our own amazing club has ties to it and its an invaluable tool for the lower echelons of the league now do i agree it shouldn't be as prevalent as it is of course not but all of these responses where because of your blanket statement assuming i was some kind of Jonah Hill uber geek haha.
And the rude comment i afford to people who dive on a discussion or in the middle of it and just quite bluntly state a point of view and throw a blanket comment over a lot of people in the debate of being daft with no substance or real argument first put forth for them to look at.
That is my only gripe but we have had a decent discussion since so much appreciated.

Tom Davies his hair do you think he uses L'Oreal or something more plant based shampoo after a hard days running around.:blush:
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He uses Polycell mate, only wallpaper paste makes your hair that stiff and manky!
 
I think part of the problem is what @Lanolin is talking about (I think) and that is that there is a difference between reacting to a particular game (or incidents in the game) and reaching a judgement about the player overall.

If I say I didn't think Episode 6 of Westworld Season 1 was that good, it doesn't mean that I think the whole series is rubbish or that I refuse to watch it any more or that there weren't interesting developments in it.

Likewise, if I see and say (as I did recently) that I thought Davies seemed slow to react loose balls or unexpected passes in a particular game doesn't mean that I think he is crap and shouldn't be in the team and isn't able to progress.

But then you get the responses "great fans, having a go at the next young player and driving them out of the club".

(I appreciate it might be equally infuriating for those who are more enthusiastic about Davies and his performances to see the posts about him never being able to develop, but that is not the opinion of everyone who might be critical of his standards in a particular game.)

The other part of the problem with any young player is that we don't live in a dream world where we are winning every game 3-0 at half time and can give youngsters a runout in the first team with no fear. So you do get the problem, as we have seen with DCL and Davies and, to a lesser extent, Kenny, Holgate and Lookman, where they are thrust into difficult situations and the team and fans are relying on them as they are every other more experienced player to win important points.
 
atrottel said:
I think part of the problem is what @Lanolin is talking about (I think) and that is that there is a difference between reacting to a particular game (or incidents in the game) and reaching a judgement about the player overall.

If I say I didn't think Episode 6 of Westworld Season 1 was that good, it doesn't mean that I think the whole series is rubbish or that I refuse to watch it any more or that there weren't interesting developments in it.

Likewise, if I see and say (as I did recently) that I thought Davies seemed slow to react loose balls or unexpected passes in a particular game doesn't mean that I think he is crap and shouldn't be in the team and isn't able to progress.

But then you get the responses "great fans, having a go at the next young player and driving them out of the club".

(I appreciate it might be equally infuriating for those who are more enthusiastic about Davies and his performances to see the posts about him never being able to develop, but that is not the opinion of everyone who might be critical of his standards in a particular game.)

The other part of the problem with any young player is that we don't live in a dream world where we are winning every game 3-0 at half time and can give youngsters a runout in the first team with no fear. So you do get the problem, as we have seen with DCL and Davies and, to a lesser extent, Kenny, Holgate and Lookman, where they are thrust into difficult situations and the team and fans are relying on them as they are every other more experienced player to win important points.
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Yes you're right mate (that it's my point I mean). Both points really, that we're not all writing off his entire career, and that players in the Everton first team are expected to perform to a certain level, regardless of age or experience. That's not ideal, but it's just the way it is.

You put it across far more eloquently, so thank you.
 
Papa Shango said:
Mate I don't live in a bloody cave! I have read the book and watched the film (didn't think the film was that good to be honest.)

I am going to point out an obvious thing here, Moneyball is about baseball. A sport that lends itself more to statistical analysis. Football does not.

Baseball has less variables as players are generally doing the same thing in the same situation over and over again. Football does not have this. It is a fluid game with too many variables.

The whole thing is a massive con. It doesn't bother me if you agree or not to be honest, you aint the first and you wont be the last. You are all being conned and trying to find stuff in the game that is simply not there. The only statistic in football that means anything is the scoreline yet people make careers out of telling people otherwise. It's utter madness. It blows my mind that the likes of Sky use the Football manager game to provide analysis on players for example!

Hmmm maybe I should make a book about it too.... I would certainly have enough to write about.
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I agree about statistics. Take assists for example. You could have a playmaker type player putting the ball on a plate to his forward, time and time again but the forward can't finish for love nor money. You then have a rival playmaker at another club feeding a prolific goalscorer and that playmaker has great assist stats. Looking on paper one player is head and shoulders over the other, that however does not tell the full story.
 

Paulie said:
I agree about statistics. Take assists for example. You could have a playmaker type player putting the ball on a plate to his forward, time and time again but the forward can't finish for love nor money. You then have a rival playmaker at another club feeding a prolific goalscorer and that playmaker has great assist stats. Looking on paper one player is head and shoulders over the other, that however does not tell the full story.
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Agreed. Chances created is probably a more telling stat to look at.
 
I personally think his case highlights where the old reserve system was better. Not sure if @Eggs will agree with me here but here goes....

When he was in the U23’s (where Unsworth is doing a fine job) he was playing with other kids. Going on loan a la Dowell would mean playing competitive football (good), but at a lower level.

Years ago, the reserves was a mix of kids and first-trainers who weren’t quite up to starting on Saturday. So they played along side these seasoned top level pros and learned a lot, therefore having a lot of strings to their bow when they made their breakthrough into the first team.

I think the kids such as DCL, Davies and to a lesser extent Dowell are let down because of the U23 set up compared to days of old.
 
Groucho said:
I personally think his case highlights where the old reserve system was better. Not sure if @Eggs will agree with me here but here goes....

When he was in the U23’s (where Unsworth is doing a fine job) he was playing with other kids. Going on loan a la Dowell would mean playing competitive football (good), but at a lower level.

Years ago, the reserves was a mix of kids and first-trainers who weren’t quite up to starting on Saturday. So they played along side these seasoned top level pros and learned a lot, therefore having a lot of strings to their bow when they made their breakthrough into the first team.

I think the kids such as DCL, Davies and to a lesser extent Dowell are let down because of the U23 set up compared to days of old.
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..definitely, Matey. I’ve posted on here before my preference for a Central League type system for the reasons you highlight. There is an argument that reserve team football blocks the way for many youngsters because their positions are filled by players on their way down, but I would counter that with the uncompetitive nature of age restricted games where many are in their comfort zones.

It’s not only playing with a number of seasoned pro’s it’s playing against them. When I was playing youth representative football we regularly played against teams older than us but I don’t see that happening as much these days.
 
Eggs said:
..definitely, Matey. I’ve posted on here before my preference for a Central League type system for the reasons you highlight. There is an argument that reserve team football blocks the way for many youngsters because their positions are filled by players on their way down, but I would counter that with the uncompetitive nature of age restricted games where many are in their comfort zones.

It’s not only playing with a number of seasoned pro’s it’s playing against them. When I was playing youth representative football we regularly played against teams older than us but I don’t see that happening as much these days.
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All in all that would benefit kids greatly.

If they’re good enough for that they’d come through.
 


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