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BainesontoastNEW
Player Valuation: £40m
We hate on our own
We hate on our own
We are the true Blues
We hate on our own
We hate on our own
We are the true Blues
We hate on our own
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
When Luka Modric was 20 he was on loan at Inter Zapresic making 18 appearances in the season.
Toni Kroos at 20 was on loan at Bayer Leverkusen after having spent only one season in the first team at Bayern.
David Silva at 20 was on loan at Celta Vigo after spending the previous season on loan at Eibar.
Zidane at 20 had moved from Cannes to Bordeaux.
How come 4 of the best midfielders in European football in their respective periods have been allowed to be poor and inconsistent at 20 but Tom Davies isn’t? How come they all developed and improved past the age of 20 (in some cases a substantial amount) but it’s assumed by some that Tom Davies doesn’t have the tools to. Some might say ‘see he needs a loan’ but then you get back to the question of why messrs Koeman Allardyce Unsworth and Silva think differently and keep playing him in the first team of a top half premier league side.
Toni Kroos at 20 was on loan at Bayer Leverkusen after having spent only one season in the first team at Bayern.
David Silva at 20 was on loan at Celta Vigo after spending the previous season on loan at Eibar.
Zidane at 20 had moved from Cannes to Bordeaux.
How come 4 of the best midfielders in European football in their respective periods have been allowed to be poor and inconsistent at 20 but Tom Davies isn’t? How come they all developed and improved past the age of 20 (in some cases a substantial amount) but it’s assumed by some that Tom Davies doesn’t have the tools to. Some might say ‘see he needs a loan’ but then you get back to the question of why messrs Koeman Allardyce Unsworth and Silva think differently and keep playing him in the first team of a top half premier league side.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I think this is a really important point. Playing as a holding midfielder (not a 10 akin to Alli or Barkley where you get more freedom) is a very difficult position to master. You don't get many doing it at Davies's age. This isn't an opinion it's backed up by stats. I've seen people say he is "poor" given his age, yet when asked what average looks like, never mind good they cannot find a player at or around his age who is out performing him. It might just be that there is a dearth of young central midfield players, but more likely the PL is a very hard league for young players to excel in. Those caveats do need to be extended to Tom.
For me the two difficulties around Davies and those judging him stem from two areas. Firstly he is quite an unorthodox player. Secondly he's a lad who has a unique level of experience.
If we take the first point, I watched Davies and he reminded me of Gravesen the other day. He has unique skills in certain areas but weaknesses in others. You'd watch Gravesen some days and think what a player but other days he'd not do the simple things well or show positional discipline. I think Davies is similar to that.
The issue of the games you can take either way. Either he should be showing more noticeable improvement having racked up 70+ games. However most players with that level of experience are normally 22/23. Whether it is number of games, or age of the player that influences improvement is a hotly debated topic without a clear answer. In all likelihood a bit of both.
What I can't have though is the hyperbole on the "anti-Tom' side. I am pro tom but try to be as balanced as possible. However it does seem since the start of last season you've had people waiting to slaughter the lad for performances that in many cases were ok. They weren't brilliant or even good, but they were decent. We seem to struggle to say "he's done ok today". I think at some level unless he's brilliant people are cuing up to criticise him.
The best example is Bournemouth. Away from home, on a hot day, with 10 men he made 6 tackles, 3 intercepts and a clearance. These are not just decent stats but are exceptional numbers, even someone like Kante would be pretty pleased with them, It showed a maturity, a discipline and a level of improvement that many have been crying out for. He was playing in front of a back 4 who were backs to the wall and he broke play up very effectively.
On the other side you had a lad who's well over a year older than him, Lewis Cook who was a long long way off Davies's performance, yet he is being tipped as a future England International and could have gone to the World Cup. Yet Davies by many was heavily criticised for his performance and where he is at. If Cook is seen as the future of the England midfield, then Davies will be the next Gazza on that performance!
So I think people get carried away in their criticism. It often lacks any nuance, any reference to the way he has played or the wider stats that back this up. I think a layer of people want the lad to fail because it re-enforces their world view that lads like Hibbert and Osman are no longer viewed as solid dependable players who were cost effective but failures for who'm those building a balanced assessment are responsible for supporting.
Looking forward to people missing the point of your post and crying about you comparing Davies to Zidane.
The conversation I was having originally was replying to someone saying he might burn out early but I said he’s more Ronaldo in terms of physique where I don’t see it being an issue.
Who said they were poor and inconsistent? Did you watch any of them as 20-year olds?
carolinablue232
Player Valuation: £70m
So Modric wasn’t good enough for Zagreb, Kroos not good enough for Bayern, Silva not good enough for Valencia, and all 3 got loaned out? Maybe, just maybe Davies isn’t good enough for what people want to see out of Everton and like those other far superior talents wouldn’t be out of place on leaving and coming back at some point. We wouldn’t sign a Tom Davies to play in the first team right now, so why should people be happy with his recent performances just because he was a youth. Think he’s got all sorts of potential but he needs to start developing into something better than what we’ve seen. Don’t see how that’s having a pop at all.
I don’t understand the protection this lad gets but it’s maybe because I’m not scouse.
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
So why have 4 managers and 2 directors of football not loaned him out and have instead moved on most of his competition?
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
Why would their teams loan them out if they were good and consistent?
Saint Domingo
Player Valuation: £90m
We signed Tom Cleverley who is quite frankly what Davies would be in his mid 20s if he didn’t develop at all from now. That’s Cleverley who was an England international btw. Cleverley who the management looked at and decided he could be sold to Watford to allow more game time for the far more promising Tom Davies.
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
What a weird post.
Do you think fans born in Liverpool are biased towards our locally born players Nymz?
I'm sure if somebody analysed those posters who are "protecting" Tom on here, you would pretty much find a cross section geographically that matches the demographics of the forum as a whole.
I suspect you would also find that the same posters who are "protecting" Tom feel the same way towards other young Everton players, regardless of where they were born.
I think the one thing that most of us posters have in common is that we can't understand why practically all of our young players take so much stick on here whilst they are still developing, and why so many are written off before they're practically out of their teens.
“One of our own” springs to mind.
So why aren’t we loaning our a player that isn’t good or consistent?
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