2018/19 Tom Davies

[Barnfred 55]

some Everton fans see a whipping boy.

Oh how we love a whipping boy.

 

[BlueToff]

We including every player on the pitch now i assumed we was talking about midfielders if you check the stats again he is 7th out of our team for a pivotal part in the squad as you want you midfielders to look after the ball and keep us ticking over not giving it away.
Someone mentioned about watching him i have purposely made an effort to catch most of his matches lately including U21s and they said he has the odd pass which goes absolutely no where and you shake your head he does this 2 maybe 3 times a match proper john smiths bitter balls.
And to give you some more objective info there are 67 midfielders with better pass completion thats midfielders not goalies or Centre Halves or Strikers 67 and as Lanolin stated Gana and Morgan are higher.
Yes i get he is a kid but he simply isnt good enough for us right now we are Everton and we need a top 10 Midfielder in pass completion knitting us together hopefully see that from Bernard or Gomes when Fit etc let Morgan and Gana Sit.

As i said just some more info for you Barngrandad.

So is he.

Literally.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Schneiderlin is allowed a bad season. Davies isn’t allowed a bad game. What is wrong with some people he’s a 20 year old academy player! When we buy someone better for a load of money then I’m sure he’ll find himself back on the bench but saying that we’ve tried that with Schneiderlin, Klaasen, Siggurdson, Vlasic etc and he keeps getting back in.

 

[Lanolin]

I know how much you enjoy a good argument Lan, sorry discussion. But I think you're wide of the mark on this one.

Not that loon needs my support but read the post he replied too again. He knew exactly what that post was saying and his reply was completely in context. It may not have been in context with the general discussion in here; I don't know because this thread is so full of negative bullshit I tend not to read most of it. But you can only judge him against the post he responded to. To do otherwise is unfair.

As regards the pass accuracy of 82.7%, I personally don't put that much kudos on passing stats, as, like most stats, they can be very misleading, and in fairness loon made the same point in his post. Whether or not you believe 82.7% is good bad or indifferent, you need to look at it in the context of the post he was responding to, which basically implied (sarcastically I realise) that 9 out 10 passes from Tom go astray.

I think we all like 'arguing' in that sense Bar, otherwise we wouldn't be posting on a forum would we? Putting our points across to those who disagree is kind of why we're here.

For me reading that post, it looked like a post which was attempting to launch a passionate defence of Davies, but in fact provided some stats which suggested there was more than a grain of truth in the criticisms he was trying to refute. 82.7% is better than 10% yes, but as it still isn't particularly great for a central midfielder, I thought maybe he had misunderstood. Alas, you may be right, and he totally understood but is just not very good at defending people. I hope he's not a lawyer.

 

[Kidkojak]

How many of them are defenders passing back to the keeper and their centreback loads of times? Can we compare Davies to other creative central midfielders please? I’ve seen a comparison to Gueye and Schneiderlin in terms of pass percentage. Neither of them play many forward balls at all so again will have high %s. We have had 4 managers since Martinez left. All of them played different styles of football, some of them had reputations for not trusting youth players, they had midfielders like Rooney Klaasen Cleverley Besic Barry to choose from at various points. All of them have continuously picked Davies and sold other players. Whilst Holgate Lookman Calvert Lewin have all sat from the bench in positions that are easier for youth players to get minutes in, Davies has consistently been played in the most important position on the pitch. Silva even recently gave him the captaincy. Managers working with him every day see a special talent, the England set up see a special talent, foreign journalists see a special talent, some Everton fans see a whipping boy.

Agree with alot of what your saying Saint but im not questioning his Tempremant or His Likeability or the fact he is from the city he in my opinion is simply not ready one bit for the role that has been thrust on him he should have been in the lower leagues from 17 to 20 really plying his trade.
Its just an opinion from a few of us Evertonians.
All good discussions and banter either way not harming anyone and its what we are all here for.

 

[sageyefc]

Schneiderlin is allowed a bad season. Davies isn’t allowed a bad game. What is wrong with some people he’s a 20 year old academy player! When we buy someone better for a load of money then I’m sure he’ll find himself back on the bench but saying that we’ve tried that with Schneiderlin, Klaasen, Siggurdson, Vlasic etc and he keeps getting back in.

Davies has been worse than schneirderlin for a much longer period

 

[Kidkojak]

Schneiderlin is allowed a bad season. Davies isn’t allowed a bad game. What is wrong with some people he’s a 20 year old academy player! When we buy someone better for a load of money then I’m sure he’ll find himself back on the bench but saying that we’ve tried that with Schneiderlin, Klaasen, Siggurdson, Vlasic etc and he keeps getting back in.

So your telling me that no one was on Morgans case just as much if not worse last season?.
To put this to bed from my side if i had seen any sign of actual progression since that match against Man City which in hindsight maybe half the problem of putting him on a pedestal before he was ready.
I wouldn't have the opinion i have so thats where i am on the matter.

 

[sageyefc]

How many of them are defenders passing back to the keeper and their centreback loads of times? Can we compare Davies to other creative central midfielders please? I’ve seen a comparison to Gueye and Schneiderlin in terms of pass percentage. Neither of them play many forward balls at all so again will have high %s. We have had 4 managers since Martinez left. All of them played different styles of football, some of them had reputations for not trusting youth players, they had midfielders like Rooney Klaasen Cleverley Besic Barry to choose from at various points. All of them have continuously picked Davies and sold other players. Whilst Holgate Lookman Calvert Lewin have all sat from the bench in positions that are easier for youth players to get minutes in, Davies has consistently been played in the most important position on the pitch. Silva even recently gave him the captaincy. Managers working with him every day see a special talent, the England set up see a special talent, foreign journalists see a special talent, some Everton fans see a whipping boy.

Last season, 74% of Schneiderlin's passes went forwards, 70% of Gueye's did, and 68% of Davies's did. The average of length of their passes was 17m for Schneiderlin and 15m for Gana and Davies. The idea that he's been tasked with being the creative heartbeat of the team while the other just walk round passing backwards is utter tosh. I can see that with my eyes at the game, and when I look at stats.

I'm honestly not trying to get on his back here, I actually don't think he's been as bad as some make out, but he's definitely struggling. If i'm honest I reckon he's only had about 10 good games for us so far, with the rest ranging from average to poor. That's not particularly surprising for a 20 year old, but nor does it really make me confident that he's going to be a star.

 

[Barnfred 55]

We including every player on the pitch now i assumed we was talking about midfielders if you check the stats again he is 7th out of our team for a pivotal part in the squad as you want you midfielders to look after the ball and keep us ticking over not giving it away.
Someone mentioned about watching him i have purposely made an effort to catch most of his matches lately including U21s and they said he has the odd pass which goes absolutely no where and you shake your head he does this 2 maybe 3 times a match proper john smiths bitter balls.
And to give you some more objective info there are 67 midfielders with better pass completion thats midfielders not goalies or Centre Halves or Strikers 67 and as Lanolin stated Gana and Morgan are higher.
Yes i get he is a kid but he simply isnt good enough for us right now we are Everton and we need a top 10 Midfielder in pass completion knitting us together hopefully see that from Bernard or Gomes when Fit etc let Morgan and Gana Sit.

As i said just some more info for you Barngrandad.

I haven't checked the stats to start off with so don't need to check them again. I don't particularly trust stats as some, especially passing stats, can be completely misleading.

All I was doing was throwing your own words back at you. You are the one that said Footballers.

For the record, I agree that Tom Davies is not yet ready to be a regular starter for our first team, given where we want to be as a club. The fact that he has played so many games for us over the last 2 years is down to a combination of bad management (both in recruitment and team selection) and a bad run of injuries. For example, if we had a fully fit squad right now Tom would be at best 4th choice for 2 CM positions, and Silva would be selective in his game with a view to managing his development. It's totally unfair to EXPECT a player just turned 20 to be controlling midfields in the premier. And that is basically what some people on here are demanding of him and it pisses the hell out of me.

 

[Kidkojak]

I haven't checked the stats to start off with so don't need to check them again. I don't particularly trust stats as some, especially passing stats, can be completely misleading.

All I was doing was throwing your own words back at you. You are the one that said Footballers.

For the record, I agree that Tom Davies is not yet ready to be a regular starter for our first team, given where we want to be as a club. The fact that he has played so many games for us over the last 2 years is down to a combination of bad management (both in recruitment and team selection) and a bad run of injuries. For example, if we had a fully fit squad right now Tom would be at best 4th choice for 2 CM positions, and Silva would be selective in his game with a view to managing his development. It's totally unfair to EXPECT a player just turned 20 to be controlling midfields in the premier. And that is basically what some people on here are demanding of him and it pisses the hell out of me.

Totally agree with all of that.
That is literally the issue i have right now all of this is not helping him.

 

[ArtetaMoney]

I think the biggest problem with Davies is us as fans, now I am one of his worst critics as I believe he isn't now and will never be good enough for a Premier League team. But there are fans that believe that he is gonna be absolutely brilliant (My father in law is one of these and is adamant that he will be Engaaeeerrrrland Captain in 3 years, we argue all the time over it) and due to this, they don't allow for anyone to criticise him. This then makes the fans that think he isn't good enough angry, as they don't see anything that the others do. Both sides end up butting heads as one thinks he's brilliant and the other terrible and neither is happy to back down on it!

It's great to read though, so keep it up.

 

[everton1953]

I think the biggest problem with Davies is us as fans, now I am one of his worst critics as I believe he isn't now and will never be good enough for a Premier League team. But there are fans that believe that he is gonna be absolutely brilliant (My father in law is one of these and is adamant that he will be Engaaeeerrrrland Captain in 3 years, we argue all the time over it) and due to this, they don't allow for anyone to criticise him. This then makes the fans that think he isn't good enough angry, as they don't see anything that the others do. Both sides end up butting heads as one thinks he's brilliant and the other terrible and neither is happy to back down on it!

It's great to read though, so keep it up.

Agree with all that, except the last bit "It's great to read though, so keep it up".

 

[Barnfred 55]

I think we all like 'arguing' in that sense Bar, otherwise we wouldn't be posting on a forum would we? Putting our points across to those who disagree is kind of why we're here.

For me reading that post, it looked like a post which was attempting to launch a passionate defence of Davies, but in fact provided some stats which suggested there was more than a grain of truth in the criticisms he was trying to refute. 82.7% is better than 10% yes, but as it still isn't particularly great for a central midfielder, I thought maybe he had misunderstood. Alas, you may be right, and he totally understood but is just not very good at defending people. I hope he's not a lawyer.

I'll tell you what I think he understands Lan, as I read it anyway. That Tom Davies is a work in progress who is not yet ready to start the number of games he is being asked to play. That there is more to his game than just the misplaced passes that some people are all too quick to jump on. That given his age and experience, the stats aren't actually that bad (as bad as some are making out anyway).

I'm pretty sure you read and occasionally post in the youth teams thread mate. So you'll know that loon is not one for going OTT about our young players, in fact he's one of the most reasonable posters in that thread. Having read another post you've made in this thread this morning, I wouldn't be surprised if his overall views on Tom are pretty similar to your own.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I think the biggest problem with Davies is us as fans, now I am one of his worst critics as I believe he isn't now and will never be good enough for a Premier League team. But there are fans that believe that he is gonna be absolutely brilliant (My father in law is one of these and is adamant that he will be Engaaeeerrrrland Captain in 3 years, we argue all the time over it) and due to this, they don't allow for anyone to criticise him. This then makes the fans that think he isn't good enough angry, as they don't see anything that the others do. Both sides end up butting heads as one thinks he's brilliant and the other terrible and neither is happy to back down on it!

It's great to read though, so keep it up.

Mate. Over the last 2 seasons he has played 60 premier league games, as a teenager, in a team that finished 7th and then 8th in the Premier league. So how the hell can you say that he will never be good enough to play for a premier league team?

By the way, I also think your father in law is way off the mark too. The lad needs to improve tremendously over the next 2/3 years if he's to become England captain.

Why can't we just accept the lad for what he is. A work in progress who Silva can hopefully develop over the next couple of years to become a bona fide squad player in a team pushing for Champions league qualification on a regular basis.

At the moment, he's doing as well as any other English 20 year old so let's be thankful for that.

 

[blueloon]

I don't think you've really understood the argument here mate.

'I don't know what he does' is just a nice way of saying 'he doesn't do anything', it doesn't mean that people are just sat there letting the game wash over them and wondering what each player is supposed to be doing.

You've then put forward his pass accuracy level of 82.7% as if it's really good. It isn't. That's lower than both Gana and Schneiderlin, so he's got the worst passing accuracy in a midfield of people who aren't very good at passing. Great.

That’s a bit condescending , I do understand people’s arguments . You may think I’m wrong , but I’m not wrong because I don’t understand , I have a different opinion and expressed it, it’s what people do , if you disagree fine.

I put up the stats of 82.5% accuracy without comment, I honestly don’t know if it’s good bad or indifferent, as I said I’m not into stats. The context was that I was replying to a post that said “ his pass completion must be single figures as his passes almost never find their man”. Clearly it’s not single figures, but I’ll accept that the poster was just making a point .