2018/19 Tom Davies

[blueloon]

I don't like slating our players but this guy, his pass completion must be single figures as his passes almost NEVER find their man.

This for me is Davies’ biggest problem and the biggest myth surrounding him. At least once per game he’ll do a pass so spectacularly bad it makes your head wobble, irs bizzarre , I can’t explain it but it still happens. And that’s the pass that sticks in people’s head, the one , sometimes two or three moments that people judge him by.
I’m not big on stats , don’t even know where to look for them , but your post prompted me to do a quick Google to find his passing stats.
From his 3 PL appearances this season his PASS ACCURACY is 82.7%
From the Premier League site I found this on his 62 appearances for us in the PL.
He’s made 1662 passes , 26.81 per match, not bad considering his sub appearances .
Accurate long balls , 61 I.e one per match
Tackles 76, tackle success rate 68% .
Errors leading to goals : 0
As I said, I’m not big into stats, and I accept that people form their opinions on what they see , which is fair enough. It’s sad in a way when people write “ I can’t see what he does” - well watch the game properly and form an opion on what he does badly , what he does well . He’ll continue to have those “ FFS Tom!” passes that people remember, but people need to look beyond those and judge him on the role he plays for the team that his manager asks him to do. And people will still watch the same game as me , watch the same plays and still form different opinions on Davies, that’s what watching football is all about , the differing opinions. I’m not going to change people’s opinion in one post, I’m saying the stats don’t back up the stick he gets, look beyond those too frequent horrible passes and judge him on his overall contribution to the team.

 

[dancing llama]

He had to spend his first full season in the absolute train wreck that was last year.

He plays in CM which requires experience and disipline - unlike being a forward where instinct and talent and pace will make you a teenage superstar.

I think he'll develop a load this year under Marco, hopefully being rotated in and out of the first team at the right times... if everyone would stop getting injured. With some improvement to his positioning and decision making he would combine the best bits of Idrissa and Schniderfraud.

Oh sod it... I'm predicting he'll be a box-to-box beast next year and will get a goal and 2 assists at the Euros and everyone on here will be saying how they always thought he was great and why the hell is Southgate still picking that bell Henderson alongside him, Beni is much better next to Tom and isn't it a shame about Tom's bald spot and where did I leave my hoverskateboard?

 

[Lanolin]

This for me is Davies’ biggest problem and the biggest myth surrounding him. At least once per game he’ll do a pass so spectacularly bad it makes your head wobble, irs bizzarre , I can’t explain it but it still happens. And that’s the pass that sticks in people’s head, the one , sometimes two or three moments that people judge him by.
I’m not big on stats , don’t even know where to look for them , but your post prompted me to do a quick Google to find his passing stats.
From his 3 PL appearances this season his PASS ACCURACY is 82.7%
From the Premier League site I found this on his 62 appearances for us in the PL.
He’s made 1662 passes , 26.81 per match, not bad considering his sub appearances .
Accurate long balls , 61 I.e one per match
Tackles 76, tackle success rate 68% .
Errors leading to goals : 0
As I said, I’m not big into stats, and I accept that people form their opinions on what they see , which is fair enough. It’s sad in a way when people write “ I can’t see what he does” - well watch the game properly and form an opion on what he does badly , what he does well . He’ll continue to have those “ FFS Tom!” passes that people remember, but people need to look beyond those and judge him on the role he plays for the team that his manager asks him to do. And people will still watch the same game as me , watch the same plays and still form different opinions on Davies, that’s what watching football is all about , the differing opinions. I’m not going to change people’s opinion in one post, I’m saying the stats don’t back up the stick he gets, look beyond those too frequent horrible passes and judge him on his overall contribution to the team.

I don't think you've really understood the argument here mate.

'I don't know what he does' is just a nice way of saying 'he doesn't do anything', it doesn't mean that people are just sat there letting the game wash over them and wondering what each player is supposed to be doing.

You've then put forward his pass accuracy level of 82.7% as if it's really good. It isn't. That's lower than both Gana and Schneiderlin, so he's got the worst passing accuracy in a midfield of people who aren't very good at passing. Great.

 

[Kidkojak]

This for me is Davies’ biggest problem and the biggest myth surrounding him. At least once per game he’ll do a pass so spectacularly bad it makes your head wobble, irs bizzarre , I can’t explain it but it still happens. And that’s the pass that sticks in people’s head, the one , sometimes two or three moments that people judge him by.
I’m not big on stats , don’t even know where to look for them , but your post prompted me to do a quick Google to find his passing stats.
From his 3 PL appearances this season his PASS ACCURACY is 82.7%
From the Premier League site I found this on his 62 appearances for us in the PL.
He’s made 1662 passes , 26.81 per match, not bad considering his sub appearances .
Accurate long balls , 61 I.e one per match
Tackles 76, tackle success rate 68% .
Errors leading to goals : 0
As I said, I’m not big into stats, and I accept that people form their opinions on what they see , which is fair enough. It’s sad in a way when people write “ I can’t see what he does” - well watch the game properly and form an opion on what he does badly , what he does well . He’ll continue to have those “ FFS Tom!” passes that people remember, but people need to look beyond those and judge him on the role he plays for the team that his manager asks him to do. And people will still watch the same game as me , watch the same plays and still form different opinions on Davies, that’s what watching football is all about , the differing opinions. I’m not going to change people’s opinion in one post, I’m saying the stats don’t back up the stick he gets, look beyond those too frequent horrible passes and judge him on his overall contribution to the team.

There are 94 Footballers with better pass completions in the Premier right now.
Just some objective thinking for you.

 

[marcus]

Why is it an obvious given he’ll improve with age when he hasn’t improved so far in his two first years where you expect every young player to?

Come back to me in 3/5 years time & tell me I am wrong...

Believe in our youngsters...
Then our youngsters will believe in themselves....

 

[jerseytoffee]

I don't think you've really understood the argument here mate.

'I don't know what he does' is just a nice way of saying 'he doesn't do anything', it doesn't mean that people are just sat there letting the game wash over them and wondering what each player is supposed to be doing.

You've then put forward his pass accuracy level of 82.7% as if it's really good. It isn't. That's lower than both Gana and Schneiderlin, so he's got the worst passing accuracy in a midfield of people who aren't very good at passing. Great.

The thing is Tom doesn’t just play it side ways he tries through balls that may not come off, he’s better than just keeping it safe.

Yes he has to improve and I think he’s just lacking confidence from last season. His first season you saw quick one touch passes and through ball assists which reflected a young excited kid with no expectations and I think he’ll get back to that eventually... hopefully.

 

[marcus]

You don’t have to excel at one particular thing if you’re good at loads of things. Unfortunately for Tom Davies at the moment, he’s just alright at loads of things rather than good at them, which overall makes him a weak link. He might well improve, but currently he’s struggling, I think we can all see that.

Its not blindingly obvious though. It’s one of my pet hates when fans just automatically assume that players WILL improve as they get older. It just doesn’t work like that, people reach their ceiling at different times, and just playing more games doesn’t mean you’ll suddenly blossom. You’d think that after seeing the likes of Hibbert, Anichebe, Rodwell and some would say Barkley come through and then never really get any better than they were at 20 people would realise, but seemingly not. Of course Davies might get better, we’d be daft to say he can’t, but it’s equally daft to say he definitely will.

When you are always ready for the worst....
Then the worst is likely to show up....

Believe in our young players & support them...
Then our young players will believe in themselves....

 

[Barnfred 55]

There are 94 Footballers with better pass completions in the Premier right now.
Just some objective thinking for you.

Assuming there are 25 players in a premier squad, that means that there are also over 400 Footballers with worse pass completions. Even if you say 15 in a squad (therefore completely ignoring presumably the worst 10 players in each teams squad) there are still over 200 worse. That puts him in the top third, which isn't bad going for a young player, literally weeks out of his teens, playing in what is supposedly the toughest league in the world.

Just some objective thinking for you Kido.

 

[Lanolin]

When you are always ready for the worst....
Then the worst is likely to show up....

Believe in our young players & support them...
Then our young players will believe in themselves....

I don't blindly believe, I believe in things I think are possible. As far as support goes, I could hardly give them any more.

 

[Lanolin]

The thing is Tom doesn’t just play it side ways he tries through balls that may not come off, he’s better than just keeping it safe.

Yes he has to improve and I think he’s just lacking confidence from last season. His first season you saw quick one touch passes and through ball assists which reflected a young excited kid with no expectations and I think he’ll get back to that eventually... hopefully.

Last season, 74% of Schneiderlin's passes went forwards, 70% of Gueye's did, and 68% of Davies's did. The average of length of their passes was 17m for Schneiderlin and 15m for Gana and Davies. The idea that he's been tasked with being the creative heartbeat of the team while the other just walk round passing backwards is utter tosh. I can see that with my eyes at the game, and when I look at stats.

I'm honestly not trying to get on his back here, I actually don't think he's been as bad as some make out, but he's definitely struggling. If i'm honest I reckon he's only had about 10 good games for us so far, with the rest ranging from average to poor. That's not particularly surprising for a 20 year old, but nor does it really make me confident that he's going to be a star.

 

[Saint Domingo]

There are 94 Footballers with better pass completions in the Premier right now.
Just some objective thinking for you.

How many of them are defenders passing back to the keeper and their centreback loads of times? Can we compare Davies to other creative central midfielders please? I’ve seen a comparison to Gueye and Schneiderlin in terms of pass percentage. Neither of them play many forward balls at all so again will have high %s. We have had 4 managers since Martinez left. All of them played different styles of football, some of them had reputations for not trusting youth players, they had midfielders like Rooney Klaasen Cleverley Besic Barry to choose from at various points. All of them have continuously picked Davies and sold other players. Whilst Holgate Lookman Calvert Lewin have all sat from the bench in positions that are easier for youth players to get minutes in, Davies has consistently been played in the most important position on the pitch. Silva even recently gave him the captaincy. Managers working with him every day see a special talent, the England set up see a special talent, foreign journalists see a special talent, some Everton fans see a whipping boy.

 

[marcus]

I don't blindly believe, I believe in things I think are possible. As far as support goes, I could hardly give them any more.

If you don't think it is possible for a young 20 year old Evertonian with lots of potential to improve...
Then I am astonished...

 

[Barnfred 55]

I don't think you've really understood the argument here mate.

'I don't know what he does' is just a nice way of saying 'he doesn't do anything', it doesn't mean that people are just sat there letting the game wash over them and wondering what each player is supposed to be doing.

You've then put forward his pass accuracy level of 82.7% as if it's really good. It isn't. That's lower than both Gana and Schneiderlin, so he's got the worst passing accuracy in a midfield of people who aren't very good at passing. Great.

I know how much you enjoy a good argument Lan, sorry discussion. But I think you're wide of the mark on this one.

Not that loon needs my support but read the post he replied too again. He knew exactly what that post was saying and his reply was completely in context. It may not have been in context with the general discussion in here; I don't know because this thread is so full of negative bullshit I tend not to read most of it. But you can only judge him against the post he responded to. To do otherwise is unfair.

As regards the pass accuracy of 82.7%, I personally don't put that much kudos on passing stats, as, like most stats, they can be very misleading, and in fairness loon made the same point in his post. Whether or not you believe 82.7% is good bad or indifferent, you need to look at it in the context of the post he was responding to, which basically implied (sarcastically I realise) that 9 out 10 passes from Tom go astray.

 

[Kidkojak]

Assuming there are 25 players in a premier squad, that means that there are also over 400 Footballers with worse pass completions. Even if you say 15 in a squad (therefore completely ignoring presumably the worst 10 players in each teams squad) there are still over 200 worse. That puts him in the top third, which isn't bad going for a young player, literally weeks out of his teens, playing in what is supposedly the toughest league in the world.

Just some objective thinking for you Kido.

We including every player on the pitch now i assumed we was talking about midfielders if you check the stats again he is 7th out of our team for a pivotal part in the squad as you want you midfielders to look after the ball and keep us ticking over not giving it away.
Someone mentioned about watching him i have purposely made an effort to catch most of his matches lately including U21s and they said he has the odd pass which goes absolutely no where and you shake your head he does this 2 maybe 3 times a match proper john smiths bitter balls.
And to give you some more objective info there are 67 midfielders with better pass completion thats midfielders not goalies or Centre Halves or Strikers 67 and as Lanolin stated Gana and Morgan are higher.
Yes i get he is a kid but he simply isnt good enough for us right now we are Everton and we need a top 10 Midfielder in pass completion knitting us together hopefully see that from Bernard or Gomes when Fit etc let Morgan and Gana Sit.

As i said just some more info for you Barngrandad.

 

[BlueToff]

Davies' stats for this season so far are comparable with most other midfielders.

That doesn't mean he's great.

But he's a young player in a developing team. He's thrust in at the deepend a lot and sometimes he has swam and sometimes he has sunk. He doesn't get in our strongest XI at the moment imo but is always a good option to have. He's 20-years-old. If we're having the same arguments in two-three years time, thinks may be different.