2018/19 Tom Davies

[Nymzee]

Which one?

Hopefully not the fat one (body, not ability).

 

[ArtetaMoney]

Agree with all that, except the last bit "It's great to read though, so keep it up".

I just like reading people's differing opinions, I like it when 2 people argue polarised opposite points about the same player. I think it's interesting how much people's views can differ when they both watch the same game.

Mate. Over the last 2 seasons he has played 60 premier league games, as a teenager, in a team that finished 7th and then 8th in the Premier league. So how the hell can you say that he will never be good enough to play for a premier league team?

By the way, I also think your father in law is way off the mark too. The lad needs to improve tremendously over the next 2/3 years if he's to become England captain.

Why can't we just accept the lad for what he is. A work in progress who Silva can hopefully develop over the next couple of years to become a bona fide squad player in a team pushing for Champions league qualification on a regular basis.

At the moment, he's doing as well as any other English 20 year old so let's be thankful for that.

This was my whole point mate.

 

[Lanolin]

That’s a bit condescending , I do understand people’s arguments . You may think I’m wrong , but I’m not wrong because I don’t understand , I have a different opinion and expressed it, it’s what people do , if you disagree fine.

I put up the stats of 82.5% accuracy without comment, I honestly don’t know if it’s good bad or indifferent, as I said I’m not into stats. The context was that I was replying to a post that said “ his pass completion must be single figures as his passes almost never find their man”. Clearly it’s not single figures, but I’ll accept that the poster was just making a point .

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be condescending, I've just said to @Barnfred 55 that I honestly thought you'd misunderstood the argument, if it was me that misunderstood then fine.

You appeared to be suggesting - quite condescendingly actually as it happens - that people who were saying 'I don't know what he does' were incapable of understanding the intricacies of the game and needed to do what you do in order to appreciate his talent. I believed you had misunderstood and had not picked up on the fact that people were really saying 'I watch what he does, but I don't really think he's very good at anything' so I tried to point it out. I also pointed out that the stats you provided actually gave some credence to the post you were replying to and saying was inaccurate, because it highlighted that his passing accuracy is below average for a midfielder.

I don't think I really do disagree with you about Davies. I think he's a lad who's been played far too much, and frankly looks out of depth at the top level at the moment at times, but who isn't without some talent and is young enough to get better.

 

[Saint Domingo]

No one on the Davies side of the debate that I’ve seen here (apart from that posters father in law) thinks that Davies is definitely going to be an England international or anything like that (although there’s nothing to say he might not develop into one). The argument seems to be that he is a young player playing in a difficult position who seems to have impressed multiple managers and has the potential to improve as he is only 20. The other side of the argument claiming that he won’t make it as a premier league player and that he'll never be good enough is bizarre when he’s already played a season and a half in our first team in the premier league. I could buy an argument that says we need better, of course we do, Id love us to have an Arteta level first choice player for Davies to learn from, but to argue that he is not good enough for our squad or for the premier league is just over criticism for no real reason.

 

[Nymzee]

Come back to me in 3/5 years time & tell me I am wrong...

Believe in our youngsters...
Then our youngsters will believe in themselves....

You come back in 3-5 years time and say sorry then if he doesn’t improve.

 

[Lanolin]

I'll tell you what I think he understands Lan, as I read it anyway. That Tom Davies is a work in progress who is not yet ready to start the number of games he is being asked to play. That there is more to his game than just the misplaced passes that some people are all too quick to jump on. That given his age and experience, the stats aren't actually that bad (as bad as some are making out anyway).

I'm pretty sure you read and occasionally post in the youth teams thread mate. So you'll know that loon is not one for going OTT about our young players, in fact he's one of the most reasonable posters in that thread. Having read another post you've made in this thread this morning, I wouldn't be surprised if his overall views on Tom are pretty similar to your own.

I didn't assassinate his character like, I just genuinely thought he'd misunderstood the point being made because he made a poor job of refuting it. I'm sure he's a lovely bloke who knows a lot about football, but his post didn't say what I think he wanted it to so I pointed it out. I've done it plenty of times myself i'm sure.

 

[ArtetaMoney]

No one on the Davies side of the debate that I’ve seen here (apart from that posters father in law) thinks that Davies is definitely going to be an England international or anything like that (although there’s nothing to say he might not develop into one). The argument seems to be that he is a young player playing in a difficult position who seems to have impressed multiple managers and has the potential to improve as he is only 20. The other side of the argument claiming that he won’t make it as a premier league player and that he'll never be good enough is bizarre when he’s already played a season and a half in our first team in the premier league. I could buy an argument that says we need better, of course we do, Id love us to have an Arteta level first choice player for Davies to learn from, but to argue that he is not good enough for our squad or for the premier league is just over criticism for no real reason.

Football, especially in the Premier League is massively reactive (overly, you could easily argue). The fact that he plays so often, gives people more reason and evidence to react to his poor performances, which there has been a lot of. If he went away on loan, which I think most people agree with, then he might just raise his level. While he is playing and starting in that position, the more exposure he has to criticism.

 

[Nymzee]

I do think he has all the raw attributes to really shine in Silva’s team when it’s fully fit but he’s just not using them properly.

Mentioned it before but there’s a lad at Hertha Berlin, Arne Maier, that plays exactly how Davies should and could play but is just miles better currently.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Hopefully not the fat one (body, not ability).

Well, the fat one is the one who mostly represents the players who are phenomena's, and by that I mean already world class, by the age of 19.

The other Ronaldo, despite going to United at 18, didn't really make his mark on the world stage until he was 22. Bit of a slow burner by comparison.

Reckon Mbappe will turn out like the Fat Ronaldo personally, just like the other teen superstars Rooney and Maradona. The only exception I can think of is Pele.

 

[Billy Dean]

Not sure about that.
Barkley got so far and then stalled in his development and this had happened long before he left Everton, which I think was a horrendous mistake on his behalf.

In his last season with us only Eriksen and Sigurdsson created more goal scoring opportunities than Barkley. I.e. he was in the top 3 creative midfielders in the league. Bit harsh to call that stalling.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Football, especially in the Premier League is massively reactive (overly, you could easily argue). The fact that he plays so often, gives people more reason and evidence to react to his poor performances, which there has been a lot of. If he went away on loan, which I think most people agree with, then he might just raise his level. While he is playing and starting in that position, the more exposure he has to criticism.

Why is he starting for us then if his performances are supposedly so poor? We’ve had no shortage of central midfielders at Everton over the last few seasons. Why does Davies keep getting picked even by managers like Koeman and Allardyce who cared nothing for youth development.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I do think he has all the raw attributes to really shine in Silva’s team when it’s fully fit but he’s just not using them properly.

Mentioned it before but there’s a lad at Hertha Berlin, Arne Maier, that plays exactly how Davies should and could play but is just miles better currently.

He’s had four games under a competent manager. Perhaps we should give him a bit more time before comparing to players from other leagues who actually get to develop properly.

 

[ArtetaMoney]

Why is he starting for us then if his performances are supposedly so poor? We’ve had no shortage of central midfielders at Everton over the last few seasons. Why does Davies keep getting picked even by managers like Koeman and Allardyce who cared nothing for youth development.

For the same reason Cuco Martina played so many games. It’s more circumstance than ability as to why he’s racked up so many appearances. A full strength squad doesn’t have Davies starting.

 

[bol-uk]

This for me is Davies’ biggest problem and the biggest myth surrounding him. At least once per game he’ll do a pass so spectacularly bad it makes your head wobble, irs bizzarre , I can’t explain it but it still happens. And that’s the pass that sticks in people’s head, the one , sometimes two or three moments that people judge him by.
I’m not big on stats , don’t even know where to look for them , but your post prompted me to do a quick Google to find his passing stats.
From his 3 PL appearances this season his PASS ACCURACY is 82.7%
From the Premier League site I found this on his 62 appearances for us in the PL.
He’s made 1662 passes , 26.81 per match, not bad considering his sub appearances .
Accurate long balls , 61 I.e one per match
Tackles 76, tackle success rate 68% .
Errors leading to goals : 0
As I said, I’m not big into stats, and I accept that people form their opinions on what they see , which is fair enough. It’s sad in a way when people write “ I can’t see what he does” - well watch the game properly and form an opion on what he does badly , what he does well . He’ll continue to have those “ FFS Tom!” passes that people remember, but people need to look beyond those and judge him on the role he plays for the team that his manager asks him to do. And people will still watch the same game as me , watch the same plays and still form different opinions on Davies, that’s what watching football is all about , the differing opinions. I’m not going to change people’s opinion in one post, I’m saying the stats don’t back up the stick he gets, look beyond those too frequent horrible passes and judge him on his overall contribution to the team.

Very interesting, thanks.

 

[Saint Domingo]

For the same reason Cuco Martina played so many games. It’s more circumstance than ability as to why he’s racked up so many appearances. A full strength squad doesn’t have Davies starting.

Not really comparable. We had 1 left back in the squad last season, Baines then had a long term injury. Injuries to Holgate and Coleman meant Kenny the only other full back had to play RB. We literally had no option but to play Martina who was promptly taken out of the team the second Baines was back fit.

Numerous Everton managers have had multiple different options to play instead of Davies. Klaasen, Rooney, Vlasic, Besic, Cleverley and Barry at one point. All of them have now left the club though and Davies remains. Any of those managers could have sold Davies instead or benched him to the point where he was pushing for a move to the championship for gametime. Instead they’ve all played him and sold those other players. No one on the side claiming that Davies isn’t good enough for the prem can answer the question why that is. Rather than a lack of competition, Davies seems to have continuously beaten off the competition.