....all i’m saying is different teams have different approaches and one player might struggle in one team but fit nicely into another. I’m talking generally, but it’s wrong to badge a player at a particular level.
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....all i’m saying is different teams have different approaches and one player might struggle in one team but fit nicely into another. I’m talking generally, but it’s wrong to badge a player at a particular level.
I'm not sure you can really compare this Everton to the one we've seen for most of the past 30 years though. For the majority of that period any vaguely decent player coming through the ranks was good enough to get game time for us because we were so poor/had very little squad depth due to financial constraints. Basically if a player was good enough to be playing 30 games in the Championship they were good enough to be in our squad, so we didn't loan them out. That's not the case now though, there's full internationals not even getting on our bench, so it's more likely that decent (not great) young prospects will be sent on loan to get some exposure. Whether that applies to Davies or not is a question for Silva and Brands. Personally I'm not convinced he's cut out for the level we're already at, nevermind aspiring to, but I won't rule out that he has more improvement in him.
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Zouma is a good example Eggs, looked a decent solid player with us last season, but has looked all over the gaff at Chelsea.
bluebud
Player Valuation: £35m
Sure but the loan development system has been successful for players at other clubs, it may not have been hugely successful for us in the past but that doesn't been that it can't be in the future, perhaps it just needs to be managed better? I think the right loan at the right time can be really beneficial, Reece Nelson at Arsenal, for example, wasnt ready for their first team last year, spent a season at Dortmund and is now back at Arsenal starting for their first team, I'd say Lookmans loan was successful, it raised his profile and gave him an opportunity to claim a spot in our first team last year, he didn't take it unfortunately but I'd say the loan was a success.
....there’s an argument to say we’ve actually suffered from sending players on loan after breaking into our first team. In recent times, Galloway and Garbutt went backwards, Lookman and Vlasic are no longer here.
When our players struggle, there’s a clamour to ‘send them on loan’, but Brands has already said the squad was too big. The manager won’t send players on loan that he wants access to. It’s a bad sign when they go down that route. I’m talking generally, of course. Davies might well be in Silva’s plans.
4737carlin
Player Valuation: £90m
Thing is did he? He made a lot of mistakes last season, only it went unnoticed by the media because he played for us, and unnoticed by Evertonian's because were too busy trying to blame Keane and Pickford.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
This increasingly my view with loans. They are often championed by people are a one size fits all solution. I don't really see any evidence that they work. Even for Barkley, I am not sure he really improved much going out on loan. He improved when a new manager came in, changed the system and found a physical, quick top draw striker to play ahead of him. Fair being fair I would say Coleman benefitted though.
The thing to me though is Osman and Coleman are both quite unique cases. Osman would have been in the first team squad at 19 had it not been for consecutive cruciate injuries on both knees. He then had the added benefit of a summer from hell meaning players weren't brought in and he was last man standing. Coleman came to the game late, so I can see how regular time would have helped him, but again it's a unique situation isn't it?
People often herald Chelsea's use of loans as the example of how it works. However pre this transfer ban how many of their young loanees have actually returned to play first team football? Yes some players have been sold on, but you really can't compare De Bruyne, Salah, Lukaku etc who were experienced top class footballers to most 18/19 year old graduates.
To me, the loan system is basically there because clubs can't male their minds up on players. There's also an element of clubs trying to raise as much money from young players as possible. Which at one level is fair enough, but you can't get massively annoyed when young players replicate that. In fact young players need to do that far more.
If I had a child at an academy, or was advising one, I would not put up with the send them out on loan schtick. If I was Gibson at us, I'd be wanting to be involved in the first team set up, or I would back myself to move elsewhere, if needs be to a club that had a 3 or 4 year commitment to me, not just one who are plugging a gap for a season where you will then leave. I'd only sign a contract if that was on offer.
As a final case in point, we can agree on 2 or 3 players in the last 20 years who've benefitted from loans. The list of players who have gone backwards with them is more notable. For me Galloway, Garbutt, Dowell in the last few years have all gone backwards after a loan move. I'm very nervous of the easy solution of just send all players out on loan as this one size fits all solution when it appears to be anything but.
I know he was prone to a mistake mate, but I thought him and Keane looked solid together.
PL loans to Germany seem successful. They appear to have s better approach to youth than our Championship sides.
orly
Please check with me for Blammo criteria
Exactly. It's a complete nonsense.
But no, a man who writes 80 paragraphs when one will do knows more about loans and youth development than Directors of Football across the country. Amazing from the football Mensa gang again.
TennesseeBlue
Player Valuation: £750k
I think when players have been around the first team squad for a year or two it's definitely a bad sign when they go on loan. I do think the young players (talking about 17-18 year olds about to break into the U23s) really can benefit from the right loan to an actually competitive league. I haven't seen much evidence of players developing in our U23 system.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
Not really mate. I'm not trying to have a pop at Directors of football or make out I know more than anyone. However the perception by some people that loans are the all singing solution to youth development I don't think stacks up. I'm happy to see the evidence of players who've benefitted from loans coming back to Everton, but I just don't see it.
As a broader issue, my contention is more with the stockpiling of players by top teams. In fairness thats not really something we engage in. I think it's cynical and bad for the game. Young players should consider that when they choose the clubs they go too.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
Thats true.I think it's more because the German League seems one which gives young players a chance, so I don't know if it's more a positive for the culture, rather than loans themselves.
It sounds cut throat, but for me there is no substitute for playing, and the best chance of getting that is to be committed to a team.
I think the gap between U23 level and first team in the PL is creating an almost impossible situation for clubs. Without loans there is no way of developing anyone for your first team unless they are really really exceptional. Those types are few and far between.
Fansince1988
Player Valuation: £40m
Davies just needs a good run in the team, will he get that I doubt it, unless we get a couple of injuries. I rate him he can drive forward much better than our other midfielders can. At his best I’ve always thought he has a bit of Bryan Robson’s style of play about him. But he’s inconsistent, but there’s a fair few other that are to, but I just hope he stays around long enough to show his full potential, as I’m sure there ps a good player in there.
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