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2019/20 Tom Davies

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His early success probably hurt him. We ended up keeping him in the team as a result and now he is stuck in this weird purgatory. What’s worse is there are many fixtures where he could/should have been given a chance given how poor we were for periods, but I can’t tell where the fault really lies.

Maybe Tommy is over the club. Maybe his attitude sucks. Maybe Silva is being a petty turd. Regardless of the reason, he could have really used a couple of loans in hindsight.
 
orly said:
I'd suggest that as we are over two and half years later, yes it probably was.

Glimpses aren't enough. Dowell gives you highlight reels of the stuff, but he also won't make it.
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But... but... he's Scouse... and he's a blue.... and... and... he's all cool like Baines... and... and... he scored a goal back in 2017 that was boss... and captained us.

In reality, if it wasn't for all of the above then most fans would have disregarded Davies a long time ago, as he really hasn't pushed on as we may have hoped.

Like Goat said, I'm not writing him off just yet and I do sincerely hope that he flourishes into a good player for us, but the chances are getting slimmer.

In reality has he showed us that he is deserving of a starting XI position and more than merely a squad player? If we talk about consistency, then I'd argue no.
 
PhilM said:
But... but... he's Scouse... and he's a blue.... and... and... he's all cool like Baines... and... and... he scored a goal back in 2017 that was boss... and captained us.

In reality, if it wasn't for all of the above then most fans would have disregarded Davies a long time ago, as he really hasn't pushed on as we may have hoped.

Like Goat said, I'm not writing him off just yet and I do sincerely hope that he flourishes into a good player for us, but the chances are getting slimmer.

In reality has he showed us that he is deserving of a starting XI position and more than merely a squad player? If we talk about consistency, then I'd argue no.
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This really.
Sad.
 

PhilM said:
But... but... he's Scouse... and he's a blue.... and... and... he's all cool like Baines... and... and... he scored a goal back in 2017 that was boss... and captained us.

In reality, if it wasn't for all of the above then most fans would have disregarded Davies a long time ago, as he really hasn't pushed on as we may have hoped.

Like Goat said, I'm not writing him off just yet and I do sincerely hope that he flourishes into a good player for us, but the chances are getting slimmer.

In reality has he showed us that he is deserving of a starting XI position and more than merely a squad player? If we talk about consistency, then I'd argue no.
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In reality, all of this actually happened tho. He scored a great goal, looked full of potential and is a local lad, which people like. Why would anyone disregard those facts or the boy himself. You can add other things, like being called up to train with the full England squad, playing resprentative football across multiple age groups etc.

The reality in which most of the haters live, where they were good at football and did the things you've listed above, doesn't exist.

The reality where people had hopes and dreams of Tom being a world class centre midfielder within a year also doesn't exist. Granted, it's a nice idea.

He doesn't deserve to be starting for us. Gomes and Delph are better footballers. You're right not to write him off yet tho, let the boy breathe and grow.

Worst case scenario we make a large profit and he plays in the championship and makes a few million quid.

There is no downside to TD for anyone apart from those who dislike anyone who is a bit different.
 
TheCount said:
In reality, all of this actually happened tho. He scored a great goal, looked full of potential and is a local lad, which people like. Why would anyone disregard those facts or the boy himself. You can add other things, like being called up to train with the full England squad, playing resprentative football across multiple age groups etc.

The reality in which most of the haters live, where they were good at football and did the things you've listed above, doesn't exist.

The reality where people had hopes and dreams of Tom being a world class centre midfielder within a year also doesn't exist. Granted, it's a nice idea.

He doesn't deserve to be starting for us. Gomes and Delph are better footballers. You're right not to write him off yet tho, let the boy breathe and grow.

Worst case scenario we make a large profit and he plays in the championship and makes a few million quid.

There is no downside to TD for anyone apart from those who dislike anyone who is a bit different.
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Yes they did happen or are true, however the point is that these events and/or facts are often used in isolation to justify a subjective view of him as a whole.

Historically, this has been a culture at Everton every couple of years where sentiment is allowed to outweigh reality - it clouds judgements on players.

Being an Evertonian, local lad or scoring a wonder goal a few years ago shouldn't negate the growing truth that Tom maybe isn't meeting the club's needs.

Although it's probably at most other clubs too, I get the feeling too many (including fans) look at the likes of Tom and see their hopes rather than the truth.

I hope the club is past these days and make an object decision removed from 'sentiment', yet previous years have shown we're still partial to questionable ones.
 
PhilM said:
Yes they did happen or are true, however the point is that these events and/or facts are often used in isolation to justify a subjective view of him as a whole.

Historically, this has been a culture at Everton every couple of years where sentiment is allowed to outweigh reality - it clouds judgements on players.

Being an Evertonian, local lad or scoring a wonder goal a few years ago shouldn't negate the growing truth that Tom maybe isn't meeting the club's needs.

Although it's probably at most other clubs too, I get the feeling too many (including fans) look at the likes of Tom and see their hopes rather than the truth.

I hope the club is past these days and make an object decision removed from 'sentiment', yet previous years have shown we're still partial to questionable ones.
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Regrading sentiment. I think that is probably true of all fans regarding local players.

Sentiment and Everton as a club. I guess you mean players like Hibbert, Osman. I'm not sure how much sentiment was involved here. I think the fact that they did a job keeping Everton in the premiership without constantly asking for more money meant they were persisted with. Players like Jags and Baines didn't kick up a fuss about contracts (not sure Baines even uses an agent). I don't think it was sentimental that they were kept on. They do a job and have never costed a lot (relatively).

I agree with you that the club should do better than looking for the cheap, easy option now. We should have money not to continue with this method. We want two quality players for each position. In their favour, they've replaced Baines a lot quicker than I think they would have in the past. Positive sign for me. Hopefully they replace him in the squad with a quality young replacement to push Digne.

Gone a little bit off topic here. I do honestly think that the club will do what's best for the club regarding Tom. But whatever happens, both will be sound.
 
When a crop of our senior midfielders can actually maintain decent form for longer than 2 games a season then Davies would be able to go on loan but the reality is that in the last 3 seasons there’s always been points where the senior players have just utterly failed to create anything that resembles premier league midfield play so Davies comes back in under 3 different managers.

Don’t blame Tom Davies. Blame Schneiderlin, Klaassen, McCarthy, Besic, Vlasic for being complete pony for large periods of the last 3 seasons.
 
Saint Domingo said:
When a crop of our senior midfielders can actually maintain decent form for longer than 2 games a season then Davies would be able to go on loan but the reality is that in the last 3 seasons there’s always been points where the senior players have just utterly failed to create anything that resembles premier league midfield play so Davies comes back in under 3 different managers.

Don’t blame Tom Davies. Blame Schneiderlin, Klaassen, McCarthy, Besic, Vlasic for being complete pony for large periods of the last 3 seasons.
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What a load of tripe ,how can you blame Vlasic , Klaasen and Besic for the few games they played ? If you think you have a point then please make a reasonable argument .
 

blue1948 said:
What a load of tripe ,how can you blame Vlasic , Klaasen and Besic for the few games they played ? If you think you have a point then please make a reasonable argument .
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So if Klaassen had performed like you expect a 25 million pound midfielder to perform in 17/18 would Davies have had to ply the number of games he did? If Besic could perform better than a substitute in the championship would Davies have had to spend time last season playing holding midfield for us? If Vlasic had performed like the Croatian international he supposedly was why would Allardyce have had to resort to Davies to offer us some go forward from midfield?

My point is that Davies has had to play for us at times when he’s been out of form, out of position, and sometimes even not in decent fitness. If other players who were in the squad hadn’t have been so abysmal then this would never have had to happen.
 
3 or 4th rung in a couple of positions which is unlikely to cost us more than someone we buy in
whose young and good enough to come on and do a job when needed
where the money saved can be spent on others
whats not to like?

can we not just look at the advantages he brings to the club.
surely when he gets a run out, we should be cheering him, lifting him

there's nothing wrong with sentiment and hopes for a guy coming through the academy
in a couple of years we'll probably looking at another academy player in the same position.
are we to keep hating on the guys for not becoming world beaters
 
Blue Roo said:
3 or 4th rung in a couple of positions which is unlikely to cost us more than someone we buy in
whose young and good enough to come on and do a job when needed
where the money saved can be spent on others
whats not to like?

can we not just look at the advantages he brings to the club.
surely when he gets a run out, we should be cheering him, lifting him

there's nothing wrong with sentiment and hopes for a guy coming through the academy
in a couple of years we'll probably looking at another academy player in the same position.
are we to keep hating on the guys for not becoming world beaters
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I'd settle for him being Premier League standard.

Which he isn't.
 
orly said:
I'd settle for him being Premier League standard.
Which he isn't.
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Depends on how you define premier league standard.
List through the 3 to 4 rung midfielders in each of the PL sides and how does TD stack up?
Even if he is considered of less standard than most of these I'd rather see the club take the risk with him
at least at this stage of rebuilding the playing roster.
Spend the money on the 1st and 2nd rung.

I think it should be more a case of, is there another academy player that's worth bringing into the senior squad in place of Davies?
It matters less what position as you can buy in a 3 to 4th midfielder and shuffle the pack to accommodate the academy player.
If the academy players aren't up to it, spend on youth elsewhere. We're talking bout players who don't get much minutes.

Like I'd see DCL in a different light bc I don't think you mess around with the importance of strikers. In this sense Kean is a great buy, we just need a more experienced 9 coming in next season.
 

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