Transfer Window Thread

[chazzle_dazzle]

"At the moment there is nothing to announce but he would fit into that outstanding young talent like Mason Holgate and is a player who we would love to see if we could get a positive outcome."

This quote from Martinez, to me, indicates that Rodriguez is NOT one of the 3 he sees improving us this season. Some may see it differently but that is what I get from that statement.

I think this "3" is a load of [Poor language removed] to be honest mate... neither here or there. We wont end up with 3, unless it is Rodriguez, Mori and a loan.

We have a week till the deadline day closes, i will be gobsmacked if we manage 3 signings in that time, sorry - I mean 3 quality signings to improve the team which Martinez has been saying he needs.

Not filling the squad with players for the sake of it, apparently.

 

[catcherintherye]

See the danger we run the risk of that a lot of people don't like to admit is not the price of success (and lack of from the board) but the price of failure. So yeah, we don't sell stones, we sign a few players, probably lennon or Januzai and we go ahead this season.

Except what happens next summer? Stones still in demand? Lukaku scored another 20 goals +? Barca want Del back? Players run out of contracts? Mirallas has a decent bid for him?

My point is, for all the we arent selling stones this summer argument, it means nothing without us backing that up. If we stagnate, there is enough players in our squad that suggest to me at least that we cant fight off clubs on several fronts, especially as some of them speak through agents.

that is why spending money right now is important. Lukaku is tasked to bang them in, yet what happens when he does that after the club spending a little amount on players, and his agent tells him the big clubs want him? Do you think he will stay?

Compare that to a club who gives young players a chance and invests in actual talent to support him? MAssive difference in perspective for a player of roms ability.

As I have put to Steve above, there are material differences between this summer and next. The fact that we have to rush around trying to replace him in a few days is a major problem, and spend the additional on our number 10 in a short space of time.

While I am not naïve enough to think we didn't plan to sell any big players this summer I do think the plan was never to sell Stones. We have lost 2 senior centre halves already, we don't want to get rid of the 3rd of our 4 in one summer. We also have Browning and Galloway who if all things go well, may be able to play centre half for us in the 2016-17 season. Finally if we sign Mori he will need time to adapt. Trying to bed in two young players, a player from the Argentinian league and potentially a new signing would be a big ask and almost a suicidal manoeuvre.

What keeping him another season does allow us to do is the following;
1) Give Mori time to bed in
2) Give Browning and Galloway 5-10 games at first team level each, and maybe another 5-10 on loan. Also hopefully get Pennington out on loan somewhere. Hope that 2 of the 3 are ready to play a role the following season.
3) Get someone like Jonny Evans in on a free transfer.

Whatever people think of the personnel we'd be in a much stronger position. We'd have Evans who is a solid PL player and Jagielka who'd be ok. We'd also then have a better idea about Mori and if he can cut it, and the younger players to evaluate if we needed anyone else.

As for the wider point about ambition I think you are absolutely right. Clinging on to Stones to sell him a year later doesn't change too much. We have to have some sense of realism though, that we cannot match the likes of Chelsea on wages. If they want to come in and put in a silly offer for Stones (and 40 million objectively is silly money) it might allow us to re strengthen.

I suppose the wider argument of those who want to keep him another year might be, that another year down the line, we have Barkley, Lukaku, Deulufeu and Stones who are a year older and more experienced. They may start to develop into world class players. I am not sure I agree with it, but I can see some sense in the argument.
My own position on it though, is that we'd be taking a big gamble trying to settle in Mori, Van Dijk (for example) Browning and Galloway alongside Jagielka this season with at least 1 of the above having to be a frontline defender.

 

[Joey66]

shopping in the bargain basement hasn't done us bad for the past few years mate.

Rather that then waste money we don't have on players that may or may not make it.

Yes but why not look in the lower English leagues?
If we are skint?

 

[Ashtonian]

I think you're reading of the situation is quite close to the mark. My own theory is, is that we're not going to sign Yarmalenko without selling Stones first. I don't think we'd have a spare 15 million in the budget lying around which could be spent on another winger. I also think, as you've said his pulling out of the race and linking another player in the Ukrainian league (Bernard) from left field is a bluff, to let them know we can go elsewhere. Liverpool did this in the Benteke race, and used Rondon and Bacca for example. I suspect the Ukrainian president is playing hardball and possibly moving the goalposts.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the media exposure to Stnes has died down at a similar time to the Yarmalenko stuff. My own feelings are, if it's before transfer deadline day, and Chelsea offer upwards of 40 million we would consider it. We'd probably see a mad dash for a centre half (I suspect we'll try for Van Dijk but end up with Evans) Yarmalenko and also think we may try a cheeky lowball bid for Austin.

If we don't get that bid from Chelsea then I suspect we will look at mainly getting loans in.

On the original post for @Ashtonian, I understand what he's saying about what benefit is it keeping Stones for 1 more year. The reality is though, especially at this late stage it would be a bad time to sell. We have already let our 2 senior centre halves go. I don't think selling Stones was ever an option (whereas it may have been for Barkley, McCarthy or even Lukaku had the right bid come in, and especially Mirallas).

If and it's a big if, we can sign Mori he will have a years experience in the premiership and probably be ready to start the following season. Likewise you would hope Browning and Galloway may be ready by next season to play a part at Centre back. I have a suspicion we have informally agreed to sign Evans like we did Cleverley last season. In all honesty in next summer would be a good time to then sell Stones (relative to this week) knowing we had back up in place.

I think Chelsea well test us twice more. One bid at 35 million with add ons, then on transfer deadline day. The fact the bid hasn't come in yet says to me Stones hasn't disrupted things as they'd have hoped.

Kenwright rightly or wrongly is under quite a bit of pressure currently. I think if we have another stunt like we saw with Arteta or Rooney, ie Stones being allowed to leave and the money not being spend on a replacement, a number 10 and another forward there would be a lot of anger. It makes sense for Kenwright to stick with him for another year if that's the case.

in regards to selling stones mate, i said it last week (to the same old posters jumping in on it) that selling him for 40, but bringing in a good centre half, spending more on a number 10, and perhaps the rest into a good squad player does improve the first 11. again arguments sake, swap stones for yarm/dijk/bernard, would our first 11 be stronger? in terms of winning games, and therefore being more succsessful? theoretical i know, but at the end of the day its not about keeping him or him, its about winning our games and being succesful, whatever it takes

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

My own theory is, is that we're not going to sign Yarmalenko without selling Stones first.

If that's the case then why did we make a bid for Yarmolenko which was accepted, while Stones is still here.

 

[Ashtonian]

As I have put to Steve above, there are material differences between this summer and next. The fact that we have to rush around trying to replace him in a few days is a major problem, and spend the additional on our number 10 in a short space of time.

While I am not naïve enough to think we didn't plan to sell any big players this summer I do think the plan was never to sell Stones. We have lost 2 senior centre halves already, we don't want to get rid of the 3rd of our 4 in one summer. We also have Browning and Galloway who if all things go well, may be able to play centre half for us in the 2016-17 season. Finally if we sign Mori he will need time to adapt. Trying to bed in two young players, a player from the Argentinian league and potentially a new signing would be a big ask and almost a suicidal manoeuvre.

What keeping him another season does allow us to do is the following;
1) Give Mori time to bed in
2) Give Browning and Galloway 5-10 games at first team level each, and maybe another 5-10 on loan. Also hopefully get Pennington out on loan somewhere. Hope that 2 of the 3 are ready to play a role the following season.
3) Get someone like Jonny Evans in on a free transfer.

Whatever people think of the personnel we'd be in a much stronger position. We'd have Evans who is a solid PL player and Jagielka who'd be ok. We'd also then have a better idea about Mori and if he can cut it, and the younger players to evaluate if we needed anyone else.

As for the wider point about ambition I think you are absolutely right. Clinging on to Stones to sell him a year later doesn't change too much. We have to have some sense of realism though, that we cannot match the likes of Chelsea on wages. If they want to come in and put in a silly offer for Stones (and 40 million objectively is silly money) it might allow us to re strengthen.

I suppose the wider argument of those who want to keep him another year might be, that another year down the line, we have Barkley, Lukaku, Deulufeu and Stones who are a year older and more experienced. They may start to develop into world class players. I am not sure I agree with it, but I can see some sense in the argument.
My own position on it though, is that we'd be taking a big gamble trying to settle in Mori, Van Dijk (for example) Browning and Galloway alongside Jagielka this season with at least 1 of the above having to be a frontline defender.

Fully agree with those points mate.

My viewpoint is from where to club progresses from if we can't go forward. Stones will be in demand, lukaku will be in demand, barkley will be a pull for a club needing english players all for example. And could you blame any player wanting to leave if the club is not looking to build on what they have and simply rely on young players having potential?

 

[catcherintherye]

in regards to selling stones mate, i said it last week (to the same old posters jumping in on it) that selling him for 40, but bringing in a good centre half, spending more on a number 10, and perhaps the rest into a good squad player does improve the first 11. again arguments sake, swap stones for yarm/dijk/bernard, would our first 11 be stronger? in terms of winning games, and therefore being more succsessful? theoretical i know, but at the end of the day its not about keeping him or him, its about winning our games and being succesful, whatever it takes

I think that's true. If we got Yarmalenko, Van Dijk and Austin for 37 million (14, 10, 13) and Sold Stones for 40, giving Barnsley there 4 or 5 million it would certainly strengthen us.

I do worry about that though. Van Dijk is still a young defender coming into a new League.

 

[catcherintherye]

Fully agree with those points mate.

My viewpoint is from where to club progresses from if we can't go forward. Stones will be in demand, lukaku will be in demand, barkley will be a pull for a club needing english players all for example. And could you blame any player wanting to leave if the club is not looking to build on what they have and simply rely on young players having potential?

Not at all. This is why the Stones thing has become very important though. I am glad we haven't rolled over, as when clubs then start to come knocking for our other young players they know they won't get them on the cheap.

 

[catcherintherye]

If that's the case then why did we make a bid for Yarmolenko which was accepted, while Stones is still here.

Well I think we were anticipating another big bid from Chelsea. When that didn't come in we started umming and arring a bit more. That's just my theory on it anyway.

 

[ilikecheese]

Goodness there is a lot of unsubstantiated tosh being thrown around in here.

 

[Mashtray]

Leandro - 19 goals in 71 games, his last season was the best return, but in total 1 in every 4 (9 in 23 in 2014/2015; 1 in every 2.5 games)

Suarez at nacional 2005-06: (also Uruguay) 10 in 27 (goal every 2.7 games)
at Groningen 2006-07: (Netherlands) 10 in 29 (goal every 3 games)

Aguero in Argentina 2003-06: 23 in 54 (one every 2.3 games)

Cavani in Uruguay 2005-07: 10 in 25 games (one every 2.5 games)

Tevez in Argentina 2001-04: 26 in 75 (one every 2.9 games)

Thought id share.

he had a good season there. its the same as buying Kane or Austin because of one good season.

so sign him up. its could only benefit us. his numbers aint too bad.

 

[marnie]

Have we made an offer for him yet ?

 

[sageyefc]

Yes but why not look in the lower English leagues?
If we are skint?

Because even they can be stupidly priced

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Well I think we were anticipating another big bid from Chelsea. When that didn't come in we started umming and arring a bit more. That's just my theory on it anyway.

This is Everton we're talking about so I can see where your coming from.

I still think Stones will still be here when the window closes.

 

[BlueToff]

We're in desperate need of 2, and could definitely do with 3. Confident we'll have Mori done by Friday. 2 in over Monday/Tuesday next week.