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2020/21 Tyler Onyango

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....and @Raino85, not one example of a successful Everton Academy loanee because there are very few. I reckon maybe Barkley & Osman are the only true Academy youngsters who have gone on loan and played more than 50 games for Everton (both had major injury at a critical stage in their development that saw them lose a lot of game time). It’s because we promote our very best youngsters and if they fail they get sent on loan (Pennington etc).

Gibson is currently at Reading and started 2 games, I find it difficult to see how he can now come back. I have no issue with Branthwaite, let’s hope he’s another like Coleman & Holgate who already had experience of playing open-age footy and came back to become valuable squad members.

i watched Onyango closely in the U23s and his quality with the ball is ordinary, even at that level. To send a 17 year old to Fleetwood later this year would be very high risk as he won’t be allowed to make mistakes with points at a premium. He could well struggle for game time, i fear he could go backwards.

A valuable asset, I’d be amazed if he’s not very carefully managed within the club.
Interesting that you brought up Gibson there mate, as his loan last year at Fleetwood seemed to be the start of decent development for him, you could argue he should of really went on loan a year earlier which would of afforded him more time to play at that standard before making the step up at Reading (which he has struggled with, and has been a poor choice from the club to send him there).

Obviously we disagree but i feel we send our lads out to late, and by that time they have catching up to do

Realistically, Onyango just training every day and playing the odd under 23 game for the next 2/3 years, were is that going to get him in a squad full of seasoned pro's and internationals, along with the knowledge every summer it is likely someone else gets signed in his position?

Its a good debate either way which is the better route
 
....and @Raino85, not one example of a successful Everton Academy loanee because there are very few. I reckon maybe Barkley & Osman are the only true Academy youngsters who have gone on loan and played more than 50 games for Everton (both had major injury at a critical stage in their development that saw them lose a lot of game time). It’s because we promote our very best youngsters and if they fail they get sent on loan (Pennington etc).

Gibson is currently at Reading and started 2 games, I find it difficult to see how he can now come back. I have no issue with Branthwaite, let’s hope he’s another like Coleman & Holgate who already had experience of playing open-age footy and came back to become valuable squad members.

i watched Onyango closely in the U23s and his quality with the ball is ordinary, even at that level. To send a 17 year old to Fleetwood later this year would be very high risk as he won’t be allowed to make mistakes with points at a premium. He could well struggle for game time, i fear he could go backwards.

A valuable asset, I’d be amazed if he’s not very carefully managed within the club.
Brendon Galloway is always a cautionary tale for me. He went from 15 Premier League games for us to have a terrible loan at West Brom, followed by a terrible loan at Sunderland, and his career has never recovered. Now he can't even get in the Luton side. Garbutt is another. He'd had a few loans and looked like he might breakthrough after making 10 appearances in 14/15 but then spent the next 4 seasons out on loan, with each loan seeing him drift further down the ladder, such that he's now a bit-part player at Blackpool.
 
The overwhelming majority of young lads in the academy never get a run in the first team even in challenge games. Most lads who are given a chance would probably be two years older than these two.

The overwhelming majority of kids in the academy fail. The success rate of loanees should be expected to be even lower, because the most promising kids like Rooney and Greenwood break into the first team in their teens and never get loaned.

I don't think that the loans are causal overall when it comes to failure ( @Bruce Wayne you are correct in some individual cases), and even if the loanees have a lower success rate that's to be expected even when the loans are working due to the selection effect.

If there's no immediate pathway to the first team, as with Branthwaite (through no fault of his own), you have to loan them out at a certain point in their development because they'll never get there playing U23 footy. As someone else mentioned, the difference between U23 and the first team has widened to a chasm in recent years.
 
Brendon Galloway is always a cautionary tale for me. He went from 15 Premier League games for us to have a terrible loan at West Brom, followed by a terrible loan at Sunderland, and his career has never recovered. Now he can't even get in the Luton side. Garbutt is another. He'd had a few loans and looked like he might breakthrough after making 10 appearances in 14/15 but then spent the next 4 seasons out on loan, with each loan seeing him drift further down the ladder, such that he's now a bit-part player at Blackpool.

...absolutely. I know Harry Kane is oft churned out as an example, but my understanding of Kane is that he wasn’t seen as a ‘diamond’ with a clear view to the first team. It’s a testament to the likes of Kane that they carved a future despite the uncertainty at that time.

it appears the club think they have a diamond in Onyango, i don’t think they’ll send a diamond to Fleetwood or anywhere else unless they are uncertain he has a future with us.
 
Brendon Galloway is always a cautionary tale for me. He went from 15 Premier League games for us to have a terrible loan at West Brom, followed by a terrible loan at Sunderland, and his career has never recovered. Now he can't even get in the Luton side. Garbutt is another. He'd had a few loans and looked like he might breakthrough after making 10 appearances in 14/15 but then spent the next 4 seasons out on loan, with each loan seeing him drift further down the ladder, such that he's now a bit-part player at Blackpool.

Story of that tale is, if you have Leighton Baines as your left back, sell the lads when they have high value
 

...absolutely. I know Harry Kane is oft churned out as an example, but my understanding of Kane is that he wasn’t seen as a ‘diamond’ with a clear view to the first team. It’s a testament to the likes of Kane that they carved a future despite the uncertainty at that time.

it appears the club think they have a diamond in Onyango, i don’t think they’ll send a diamond to Fleetwood or anywhere else unless they are uncertain he has a future with us.
Seems like it’s also often lucky depending on the manager and the state of the loanees club. You’d think due diligence would be carried out beforehand but it’s clear in some cases that this has been lacking.
Galloway had more about him than to end up on Luton’s bench.
 
Brendon Galloway is always a cautionary tale for me. He went from 15 Premier League games for us to have a terrible loan at West Brom, followed by a terrible loan at Sunderland, and his career has never recovered. Now he can't even get in the Luton side. Garbutt is another. He'd had a few loans and looked like he might breakthrough after making 10 appearances in 14/15 but then spent the next 4 seasons out on loan, with each loan seeing him drift further down the ladder, such that he's now a bit-part player at Blackpool.

He’ll always be a “what could have been”player. Looked every bit like a 300+ game EPL player, loaned out to play regularly and thought that would be the making of him when he came back. I think WBA was the wrong club to move to as they were chasing promotion and probably didn’t want to develop another teams player to get there, but there must have been something lacking that they didn’t like and we must not have either. Whether is motivation or professionalism we may never know.

Baningime is pretty similar, his cameos were impressive and then went on loan to barely be seen again, also had some injuries but again must not be the only factor
 

Brendon Galloway is always a cautionary tale for me. He went from 15 Premier League games for us to have a terrible loan at West Brom, followed by a terrible loan at Sunderland, and his career has never recovered. Now he can't even get in the Luton side. Garbutt is another. He'd had a few loans and looked like he might breakthrough after making 10 appearances in 14/15 but then spent the next 4 seasons out on loan, with each loan seeing him drift further down the ladder, such that he's now a bit-part player at Blackpool.

For me, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. What I don't agree with is that every player needs to go out on loan to succeed here. Rooney didn't. Barkley went out on loan and it set him back. Stones didn't. Rodwell didn't. Jeffers didn't. Michael Ball didn't etc. They are probably the best players who have come through in my time.

Osman and Coleman yes. But there a specific circumstances for each. Osman had 2 cruciate knee injuries that kept him out for oer 2 years, at a time when players didn't recover from them. Moyes didnt fancy him at all, and he had to fight his way in. There's no doubt the loan improved him, but there was a reason he didn't break through at 18/19 or whatever (which he was very close to doing pre injuries).

Coleman hardly played any football growing up, and was very raw. The games probably helped him and is quite a good example.

Neither Onyango, nor Small have the above issues though. I always feel loaning players out is the easy option to avoid making a decision.

I see it like this. Imagine when you are 20. You work for one of the top firms in the country. You get exclusive gym memberships, your own BMW, top rented accomodation with your own swimming pool as standard. At your work you get gourmet meals cooked for you, you have pristine leather chairs to work on and a top of the range macbook to work from.

Then someone says we want you to go to Shrewsbury, to work out of a porter cabin for 6 months to learn how to do your job. For some people it will be a wake up call, but for most, they will just switch off and not take it seriously.

On the specific case of Onyango, it's much too early to start speculating about loans or whether he can play in the premiership. The big take out for me is he needs to kee growing, as opposed to get experience on loan at this point. He's wiry at the moment, and will no doubt fill out. As he does that it will be help him believe he can take games by the scruff of the next.

If he goes to League 1/2 next year, I suspect you will get a manager who will stick him further forward and utilise him as a "head on a stick" and I am really not sure how that will benefit anyone.
 
Here we go again.

Gonna be some ride this.
I built Tom up a lot, and am still quite supportive of him. He hasn't really kicked on until Ancelotti arrived and has done well.

What I will say though, is Davies's cameo was better than Onyango's. Infer whatever meaning you want from that, but thats the reality.

He did really well, it's brilliant that 2 teenagers got debuts, but there's a long way to go until they are ready for a PL game. Hopefully it knocks on the head the idea the academy is useless or Ancelotti hates youth. Lets also be realistic though, they have a bit to go still.

It looks like we are starting to push people through under Brands though. You add in Nkounkou and Brainthwaite who have been bought in, and you can start to see his role.
 
Brendon Galloway is always a cautionary tale for me. He went from 15 Premier League games for us to have a terrible loan at West Brom, followed by a terrible loan at Sunderland, and his career has never recovered. Now he can't even get in the Luton side. Garbutt is another. He'd had a few loans and looked like he might breakthrough after making 10 appearances in 14/15 but then spent the next 4 seasons out on loan, with each loan seeing him drift further down the ladder, such that he's now a bit-part player at Blackpool.
Those crappy loans hey Bruce I lol
 

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