Ukraine invasion and the sanction of Oligarchs

[catcherintherye]

Are you really suggesting we blame people for the sins of their forefathers. You cannot condemn the invasion of a sovereign state because another Country may have done it in the past.

What you seem to have a problem understanding is blaming the whole of a Country for the past sins of certain individuals is completely different to accepting money from Skoch and USM when Skoch is an MP for Putins party and complicit in the invasion of Ukraine.

Are you really happy we could have two Ukranian players on the pitch and USM plastered everywhere ?

Hold on mate, what do you mean crimes of their forefathers? Yemen is being bombed right now. The fact you think this is a crime that is happening generations ago is again demonstrative of (and I mean this politely) your ignorance on these issues.

As for Skoch, my argument was just that he's not in the "inner circle". The fact we have a sponsor, who has a shareholder who is an MP in a country is hardly a massive gotcha in my view. And I have no idea what he is, or isnt complicit in. Tony Benn and Jeremy Corbyn were in Blairs governing party, but it didnt mean they supported the Iraq war. It's just a very odd principle.

And what we are seeing, with the ruling classes approach in this country is exactly what you say. It's an attempt to blame an entire country for the actions of its ruler. Blame the Israeli Citizen, blame the bloke from Uzbekistan, or the British citizen, if they happen to have any shareholding in a company that may have links to Russia.

Blame the business that may have done a deal with a company that may happen to be from that country. It's a witch hunt. I would go for it, if our own ruling class would ever take any responsibility for their multitude of crimes around the world. They dont though. It's a complete double standard, and I will call our establishment out on it.

They literally put Tony Blair in the House of Lords a few weeks back. And these same knobheads are now pointing the finger at people based upon where they are from, or who they might know. Tony effing Blair.

You dont need to parrot their rubbish mate. You can do better than that.

 

[catcherintherye]

Hey man we get it. You’re a genius and everyone mad about Russia is a dumb dumb.

I'm not a genius. I'm just an ordinary person with an opinion mate, the same as everyone else on here. For the most part, it's a good discussion.

 

[gwladysnight]

But but but but, all the rich Russiana have to support Putin. This cant be happening. Fake news.

Sofia Abramovich's mother divorced Roman Abramovich in 2007 and she lives with her mother in Sussex. Are you really suggesting she is a Russian Oligarch like Usmanov and Skoch ?

 

[catcherintherye]

China is one of the most racist countries on earth and they’d proudly admit it

Are they? According to who? And when have they ever admitted racism?

 

[catcherintherye]

Sofia Abramovich's mother divorced Roman Abramovich in 2007 and she lives with her mother in Sussex. Are you really suggesting she is a Russian Oligarch like Usmanov and Skoch ?

No, what I'm saying is just because people are wealthy and Russian doesnt automatically mean they support Putin or the war effort, as has been noted.

 

[catcherintherye]

Sure America has problems and inequalities but to compare them with China when it comes to freedoms and opportunities is ludicrous.

America is far more unequal than China.

 

[gwladysnight]

Are they? According to who? And when have they ever admitted racism?

The Uyghur genocide is the characterization of the series of ongoing human rights abuses committed by the government of China against Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in Xinjiang as genocide. Since 2014, the Chinese government, under the administration of Chinese Communist Party (CCP) General Secretary Xi Jinping, has pursued policies that incarcerated more than an estimated one million Turkic Muslims in internment camps without any legal process.[3][4][5] This is the largest-scale detention of ethnic and religious minorities since World War II.[6][7] Thousands of mosques have been destroyed or damaged, and hundreds of thousands of children have been forcibly separated from their parents and sent to boarding schools.[8][9]

Government policies have included the arbitrary detention of Uyghurs in state-sponsored internment camps,[10][11] forced labor,[12][13] suppression of Uyghur religious practices,[14] political indoctrination,[15] severe ill-treatment,[16] forced sterilization,[17] forced contraception,[18][19] and forced abortion.[20][21] Chinese government statistics reported that from 2015 to 2018, birth rates in the mostly Uyghur regions of Hotan and Kashgar fell by more than 60%.[17] In the same period, the birth rate of the whole country decreased by 9.69%.[22] Chinese authorities acknowledged that birth rates dropped by almost a third in 2018 in Xinjiang, but denied reports of forced sterilization and genocide.[23] Birth rates in Xinjiang fell a further 24% in 2019, compared to a nationwide decrease of 4.2%.[17]

At first, these actions were described as the forced assimilation of Xinjiang, and an ethnocide or cultural genocide.[24][25] As more details emerged, some governments, activists, NGOs, human rights experts, and academics termed it genocide, pointing to intentional acts committed by the Chinese government that they say run afoul of Article II of the Genocide Convention.[26][27][28] The Chinese government publicly denies that it has committed human rights abuses in Xinjiang.[6][29]

 

[MikeH72]

Are they? According to who? And when have they ever admitted racism?

Jesus Christ mate

 

[gwladysnight]

No, what I'm saying is just because people are wealthy and Russian doesnt automatically mean they support Putin or the war effort, as has been noted.

We are talking about Oligarchs who were basically given state assets by Putin.

 

[bcblue1878]

America is far more unequal than China.

That’s because in China - “Everyone is equal, just some more so than others”, might explain why they have the second most amount of Billionaires in the world per country! And yes I do know USA has the most!

 

[MikeH72]

America is far more unequal than China.

Yeah and North Korea is the most equal place on earth, everyone is treated equally like cattle.

 

[ToffeeTim]

I think this needs to be taken to the CA forum. Some absolute nonsense being chatted that has nothing to do with Everton Football Club

 

[ToffeeTim]

Well not really.

I'm arguing China had done more to lift its poorest out of poverty, than America has which remains a grossly unequal country, built upon racism.

When people highlight the human rights abuses that exist in China (which I'm sure they do) I'm merely pointing out you have the same processes in America, but because its America its framed very differently.

Wacquants work on this is very interesting as well, and how the prison sector in America is inherently racist, an extension of 400 years of prejudice and symbolically violent against the black community.

I'm not sure America, or its supporters are in any position to point fingers.

Bed

 

[davek]

Are you really suggesting we blame people for the sins of their forefathers. You cannot condemn the invasion of a sovereign state because another Country may have done it in the past.

What you seem to have a problem understanding is blaming the whole of a Country for the past sins of certain individuals is completely different to accepting money from Skoch and USM when Skoch is an MP for Putins party and complicit in the invasion of Ukraine.

Are you really happy we could have two Ukranian players on the pitch and USM plastered everywhere ?

You think we should get rid of our sponsors because we have a Ukrainian player?

FFS.

 

[davek]

China is one of the most racist countries on earth and they’d proudly admit it

No, Israel is. It's written into their constitution that Arab Israelis have less rights than Jewish Israelis.