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Ukraine invasion and the sanction of Oligarchs

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gwladysnight said:
You get funnier and funnier. By the end of today, you will have brought every nation on the planet into your bizarre attempts to defend Moshiri, Usmanov and Putin. By tomorrow you will be on to the Martians, I expect.

As for Gazprom that is the exact logo that has been removed from the Schalke shirts. Maybe they don't have fans like you though, prepared to abandon all principles if it means a few quid for Everton.
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But it's a discussion about global politics. So it is perfectly normal to reference other conflicts isnt it? Or do Irish people, or Iraqis, or people in Yemen etc not count when it comes to the brutality of war?

Good on Schalke. I'm tactically against moments of individual heroism, for an approach that tackles things in a top down manner.

I hope we are in agreement, that football as a whole, should look to avoid having any money, from any countries that have ever invaded anyone for means of consistency?
 
catcherintherye said:
I'm not sure there is any straw man.

You say it's wrong, but at the same time you call it absurd. A camp is a camp. Do you think some camps are worse than others or something mad like that?

Taking children away from their parents, as young as 7 or 8, to leave them alone in a camp is reprehensible. It's in no way absurd to suggest this is every bit as reprehensible as the actions of other countries. The fact you use that phrase, and have a scant disregard for life, and children's lives, is a bit alarming.

As for Skoch, is he a member of Putins cabinet. I can see no evidence of that. Hes clearly not in the inner sanctum.
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It is clearly a strawman because you are pretending I am defending border camps. I called them an obscenity. You simply cannot be more unequivocal than that.

If Skoch has no connections to Putin then why has he been subject to sanctions since 2018 ?
 
gwladysnight said:
It is clearly a strawman because you are pretending I am defending border camps. I called them an obscenity. You simply cannot be more unequivocal than that.

If Skoch has no connections to Putin then why has he been subject to sanctions since 2018 ?
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Ok. So why is it "absurd" to point out a camp in American is equally as grotesque as a camp in China? That's the bit I dont get. It seems an odd choice of terminology to me. It's clearly not "absurd".

I'm glad we can work from the phrase obscenity. Which is also true of any camps China has. I think we can both agree, the existence of camps, from any government in any country is obscene.

I wasnt aware of Skoch being sanctioned in this country, so I'm not sure how to answer that.
 
catcherintherye said:
Ok. So why is it "absurd" to point out a camp in American is equally as grotesque as a camp in China? That's the bit I dont get. It seems an odd choice of terminology to me. It's clearly not "absurd".

I'm glad we can work from the phrase obscenity. Which is also true of any camps China has. I think we can both agree, the existence of camps, from any government in any country is obscene.

I wasnt aware of Skoch being sanctioned in this country, so I'm not sure how to answer that.
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You aren’t arguing that they’re equally grotesque, you’re trying to make the case that China is better and more of a free country?
 

catcherintherye said:
But it's a discussion about global politics. So it is perfectly normal to reference other conflicts isnt it? Or do Irish people, or Iraqis, or people in Yemen etc not count when it comes to the brutality of war?

Good on Schalke. I'm tactically against moments of individual heroism, for an approach that tackles things in a top down manner.

I hope we are in agreement, that football as a whole, should look to avoid having any money, from any countries that have ever invaded anyone for means of consistency?
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Are you really suggesting we blame people for the sins of their forefathers. You cannot condemn the invasion of a sovereign state because another Country may have done it in the past.

What you seem to have a problem understanding is blaming the whole of a Country for the past sins of certain individuals is completely different to accepting money from Skoch and USM when Skoch is an MP for Putins party and complicit in the invasion of Ukraine.

Are you really happy we could have two Ukranian players on the pitch and USM plastered everywhere ?
 
catcherintherye said:
Ok. So why is it "absurd" to point out a camp in American is equally as grotesque as a camp in China? That's the bit I dont get. It seems an odd choice of terminology to me. It's clearly not "absurd".

I'm glad we can work from the phrase obscenity. Which is also true of any camps China has. I think we can both agree, the existence of camps, from any government in any country is obscene.

I wasnt aware of Skoch being sanctioned in this country, so I'm not sure how to answer that.
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You tried to portray China as a socialist panacea with a superior system. Whilst choosing to ignore genocide and ethnic cleansing. Amazing what you are prepared to ignore to defend Moshiri, Usmanov and Putin.
 
MikeH72 said:
You aren’t arguing that they’re equally grotesque, you’re trying to make the case that China is better and more of a free country?
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Well not really.

I'm arguing China had done more to lift its poorest out of poverty, than America has which remains a grossly unequal country, built upon racism.

When people highlight the human rights abuses that exist in China (which I'm sure they do) I'm merely pointing out you have the same processes in America, but because its America its framed very differently.

Wacquants work on this is very interesting as well, and how the prison sector in America is inherently racist, an extension of 400 years of prejudice and symbolically violent against the black community.

I'm not sure America, or its supporters are in any position to point fingers.
 

catcherintherye said:
Well not really.

I'm arguing China had done more to lift its poorest out of poverty, than America has which remains a grossly unequal country, built upon racism.

When people highlight the human rights abuses that exist in China (which I'm sure they do) I'm merely pointing out you have the same processes in America, but because its America its framed very differently.

Wacquants work on this is very interesting as well, and how the prison sector in America is inherently racist, an extension of 400 years of prejudice and symbolically violent against the black community.

I'm not sure America, or its supporters are in any position to point fingers.
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China is one of the most racist countries on earth and they’d proudly admit it lol lol lol
 
MikeH72 said:
China is one of the most racist countries on earth and they’d proudly admit it lol lol lol
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They don't even like fat people LOL

A friend of mine once told me a friend of hers who was fat went there and people made pig noises at her in the street LOL wtf
 
catcherintherye said:
Well not really.

I'm arguing China had done more to lift its poorest out of poverty, than America has which remains a grossly unequal country, built upon racism.

When people highlight the human rights abuses that exist in China (which I'm sure they do) I'm merely pointing out you have the same processes in America, but because its America its framed very differently.

Wacquants work on this is very interesting as well, and how the prison sector in America is inherently racist, an extension of 400 years of prejudice and symbolically violent against the black community.

I'm not sure America, or its supporters are in any position to point fingers.
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Sure America has problems and inequalities but to compare them with China when it comes to freedoms and opportunities is ludicrous.
 

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