V.A.R

[BlueToff]

The glamour tie of Villarreal v Everton was too big to decline.

As for VAR, wasn't it the clubs that rejected it?

I think, I may be wrong, but I think it was the league - they wanted to 'trial' it more before it got introduced.

Whether that was down to pressure from the clubs - or certain clubs - I suppose could be questioned, if indeed I'm right in thinking it was the league.

Regardless, it should be brought in as soon as possible. It holds the officials accountable.

 

[Lanolin]

The issue I have with VAR - and i'm not against it by any means - is that it remains very subjective. I think a lot of people talk about it as if it will solve all the problems we have but will it? I can certainly imagine a ref looking again at the Jorginho tackle yesterday and deciding that he called it right, or claiming that Yoshida was interfering with play in the Southampton game. There were enough incidents in the World Cup to suggest that referees will continue to just make whatever decision they feel like making regardless of whether they watch it again or not.

 

[BlueToff]

Football doesn't flow any more though. The main reason for that is because of players diving constantly. Being in VAR and a proper retrospective action system for diving and I believe it will actually make the game flow better. You're not going to keep cheating if the cameras pick it all up and you keep getting banned.

Inadvertantly, players will stay on their feet more for minimal contact fouls in fear of getting punished.

But no, the game is perfect as it is according to those who think "the ball must go backwards from the kick off" is a more important issue to address.

The flow argument is ridiculous mate.

There is no 'lack of flow' in any of the major European leagues now. It takes a minute at tops, and in the very extreme circumstances where they have to run to the screen like in the WC, it's 2-3.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I think, I may be wrong, but I think it was the league - they wanted to 'trial' it more before it got introduced.

Whether that was down to pressure from the clubs - or certain clubs - I suppose could be questioned, if indeed I'm right in thinking it was the league.

Regardless, it should be brought in as soon as possible. It holds the officials accountable.

Think it was the clubs mate - just checked, they voted to defer (reject its deployment) pending more trials.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...gue-video-assistant-referees-var-vote-against

A decision to defer implementation of the controversial video assistant referee technology was passed by a two-thirds majority at a meeting of the 20 Premier League clubs on Friday. Such an outcome had been expected after widespread criticism.

Though you'd hope the world cup and other leagues will change consensus.

The Premier League is the exception in choosing to refrain from embracing the technology. VAR will be used at the World Cup in Russia and has also been approved for use next season by most of Europe’s major leagues, including La Liga, the Bundesliga and Serie A.

 

[Brisan123]

Ref watch starting now on SSN
See how many decisions Gallagher says we’re wrong

 

[toffeejack]

The flow argument is ridiculous mate.

There is no 'lack of flow' in any of the major European leagues now. It takes a minute at tops, and in the very extreme circumstances where they have to run to the screen like in the WC, it's 2-3.

I don't understand why they can't put it on the big screen to save time. Ridiculous reasoning of not showing controversial replays. Just re watch our game v Huddersfield and how can anyone tell me the "flow" of that game would be disrupted.

 

[Cels]

Missing the point. The game is about opinions, you can still have that debate about the ref getting it wrong or right, it's just technology gives them a better charge to get the decision right. So many these days can be determined after one or two replays, which are hard to spot in real time.

I don't agree with people saying teams will just appeal every goal, that's not how it works. If the ref / TV ref thinks there's nothing to look at, they won't signal for VAR.

Excellent post. I'm not missing the point though, I'm happy enough with the way things are at the moment.

I don't see how teams could appeal every goal either; there would have to be something contentious about the goal to start with. Anyway, with VAR, we wouldn't have talking points like the one below

 

[toffeejack]

Think it was the clubs mate - just checked, they voted to defer (reject its deployment) pending more trials.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...gue-video-assistant-referees-var-vote-against

A decision to defer implementation of the controversial video assistant referee technology was passed by a two-thirds majority at a meeting of the 20 Premier League clubs on Friday. Such an outcome had been expected after widespread criticism.

Though you'd hope the world cup and other leagues will change consensus.

The Premier League is the exception in choosing to refrain from embracing the technology. VAR will be used at the World Cup in Russia and has also been approved for use next season by most of Europe’s major leagues, including La Liga, the Bundesliga and Serie A.

Yep, I mean, it was stupid, but as I said before, the FA should have had some balls and said it had to be used. They don't consult teams over every rule change, so I don't know why it was put to them.

 

[BlueToff]

The issue I have with VAR - and i'm not against it by any means - is that it remains very subjective. I think a lot of people talk about it as if it will solve all the problems we have but will it? I can certainly imagine a ref looking again at the Jorginho tackle yesterday and deciding that he called it right, or claiming that Yoshida was interfering with play in the Southampton game. There were enough incidents in the World Cup to suggest that referees will continue to just make whatever decision they feel like making regardless of whether they watch it again or not.

I don't think anyone could look at Jorg and say it's subjective if the rules are clarified though.

Supposedly, if both boots are up, or if it's a scissor tackle, then the letter of the law says it is a red card. So, Jorg should have seen red. Now, if before they bring in VAR they change that rule, then that can obviously be reflected. But, if VAR was in place yesterday then they would have HAD to give a red as VAR has to act by the letter of the law - in theory (and this theory is applied very well 9/10 now in Europe's major leagues).

Offsides aren't really subjective - only in the eyes of muppet pundits like Murphy or Owen. A referee/official should be able to take one look at a video line and make a judgement call, really. Again, it just requires clarity on the rules. Once the clarity is there than any subjectivity should be taken away.

It's working really well in Europe atm, there's absolutely no reason why it shouldn't work here.

Think it was the clubs mate - just checked, they voted to defer (reject its deployment) pending more trials.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...gue-video-assistant-referees-var-vote-against

A decision to defer implementation of the controversial video assistant referee technology was passed by a two-thirds majority at a meeting of the 20 Premier League clubs on Friday. Such an outcome had been expected after widespread criticism.

Though you'd hope the world cup and other leagues will change consensus.

The Premier League is the exception in choosing to refrain from embracing the technology. VAR will be used at the World Cup in Russia and has also been approved for use next season by most of Europe’s major leagues, including La Liga, the Bundesliga and Serie A.

Fair enough. As you say, hopefully they'll change their mind.

 

[Saint Domingo]

The issue I have with VAR - and i'm not against it by any means - is that it remains very subjective. I think a lot of people talk about it as if it will solve all the problems we have but will it? I can certainly imagine a ref looking again at the Jorginho tackle yesterday and deciding that he called it right, or claiming that Yoshida was interfering with play in the Southampton game. There were enough incidents in the World Cup to suggest that referees will continue to just make whatever decision they feel like making regardless of whether they watch it again or not.

Absolutely right but it will hopefully decrease the margin for error on blatant decisions like offsides, no contact in the box etc. For things like Martial’s pen against us we have some claiming that it’s a stonewall pen on Martial and Gueye should be sent off and others wanting Martial banned for diving depending on their point of view.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I think it will have to come in next season. The big clubs best make the most of the decisions whilst they still can.

 

[Lanolin]

I don't think anyone could look at Jorg and say it's subjective if the rules are clarified though.

Supposedly, if both boots are up, or if it's a scissor tackle, then the letter of the law says it is a red card. So, Jorg should have seen red. Now, if before they bring in VAR they change that rule, then that can obviously be reflected. But, if VAR was in place yesterday then they would have HAD to give a red as VAR has to act by the letter of the law - in theory (and this theory is applied very well 9/10 now in Europe's major leagues).

Offsides aren't really subjective - only in the eyes of muppet pundits like Murphy or Owen. A referee/official should be able to take one look at a video line and make a judgement call, really. Again, it just requires clarity on the rules. Once the clarity is there than any subjectivity should be taken away.

It's working really well in Europe atm, there's absolutely no reason why it shouldn't work here.



Fair enough. As you say, hopefully they'll change their mind.

I agree in theory, but as I said, just look at the world cup for plenty of examples of calls that you wouldn't think were subjective either not being referred to VAR or being referred and the 'wrong' decision being reached.

It just isn't that easy to clarify the rules in the sense you're talking. you'll never have a situation where everybody is in complete agreement over what should happen in a certain situation. As has been said above, the United pen against us is the perfect example of an almost 50/50 split between those who think it's a pen and those who don't. That's a judgement call, and always be. The same with the Mina tackle yesterday, you'll never get a rule written in a way that gives a definitive answer as to whether that's a) a foul b) a yellow or c) a red. There will always be room for interpretation.

As I said, that doesn't mean i'm not in favour of it being introduced, I just think we have to be a lot more realistic about will actually achieve. Those saying that it will end the favouring of the elite don't seem to be taking into account that a linesman can still put his flag up and stop you from scoring without it even going to VAR, or that a ref can just refuse to look again at a tackle because he thinks he saw it fine the first time. Niasse was punished by video panel for deceiving the referee last season despite there being clear evidence of him being touched, while many others who went down with nobody near them got away with it. It's incredibly naïve to think the introduction of VAR will solve all the officiating problems.

 

[BlueToff]

Absolutely right but it will hopefully decrease the margin for error on blatant decisions like offsides, no contact in the box etc. For things like Martial’s pen against us we have some claiming that it’s a stonewall pen on Martial and Gueye should be sent off and others wanting Martial banned for diving depending on their point of view.

Aye.

If it clears up things like Aubameyang's goal against us then that is, in fairness, 50% of the really crap decisions out of the equation.

Start with the basics.

 

[blulouie]

Needs bringing in ASAP as bad decisions have cost us dearly this season

Good enough for the other big leagues around europe and even the World Cup but not for the Prem....need's a major rethink.

 

[-Rob-]

Bringing in VAR isn't about making it a level playing field so the smaller clubs get the decisions going their way as much as the bigger clubs. If there is a perceived bias now then there is a good chance there will still be a perceived bias when we have VAR. It will still be open to human interpretation and therefore still be open to bias.

The benefit of VAR is that the overall standard of decisions should increase for everyone. Give the referee a chance to look at events 3 or 4 times and more often than not they will make the right decision. I genuinely don't care if the flow of the game is interrupted a little as long as the end result is fair and in accordance with the rules.

It may take 10 years or more of having VAR but eventually players will have to become more honest. Diving will eventually become futile as players start to realise they can't get away with it. Dangerously poor tackles would hopefully reduce as players would know they are more likely to be seen and get a red card. In theory, VAR has the potential to improve the overall standard of the game.