Who is the bigger club? Arsenal or Chelsea?

[Lanolin]

The weird cut off points people use to decide who is and isn't allowed to be a big club are very weird. Basically if you were good in the 70s or 80s you're a big club in many people's minds. Success after that means you're just a johnny come lately even if you're getting on for 30 years of it, and success before it is irrelevant.

 

[Tipp blue]

Would you say they're a bigger club than us after winning the league? Loads would but not me.

Since we last won a pot they have won the league Cup twice and the PL and gone to the last 16 of the champions league, in that same time they have also they have been relegated a few times had a period in league 1 and championship. Would you swap their last 25 years for ours? Are they bigger than us? What's bigger? Most fans? Most success? Most recent success?

 

[Azzurri]

Since we last won a pot they have won the league Cup twice and the PL and gone to the last 16 of the champions league, in that same time they have also they have been relegated a few times had a period in league 1 and championship. Would you swap their last 25 years for ours? Are they bigger than us? What's bigger? Most fans? Most success? Most recent success?

I’d swap their last 25 years for ours, yes, but that doesn’t make them a bigger club.

Leeds were in league 1 out the Prem for 16 years and still a bigger club than Bournemouth, Norwich, QPR, Stoke, Bolton, Wigan, Birmingham and plenty of others who were top flight (trophy winners in some cases).

Sunderland are now in League 1 and in my opinion still bigger than Leicester, in this country at least.

 

[number4.]

Would you say they're a bigger club than us after winning the league? Loads would but not me.

For me Leicester will never be a bigger club than Everton, Aston Villa, Spurs etc; they could win back to back leagues and it wouldnt change that.

It's an organic thing that develops over years, you cant touch it and money cant buy it. I think it's live embodyment now is Man City's sensitivity over the "Emptyhad" jibes.

 

[Papa Shango]

The weird cut off points people use to decide who is and isn't allowed to be a big club are very weird. Basically if you were good in the 70s or 80s you're a big club in many people's minds. Success after that means you're just a johnny come lately even if you're getting on for 30 years of it, and success before it is irrelevant.

I suppose realistically it depends on who was a big club when you were growing up.

Some people still see Sheffield Wednesday as a big club (they are more of a sleeping giant I guess) because they were top flight regulars in the 80's.

I never see Leeds as a big club as when I was growing up I knew nothing about them as they were a second tier club for most of the 80's.

 

[Tipp blue]

I’d swap their last 25 years for ours, yes, but that doesn’t make them a bigger club.

Leeds were in league 1 out the Prem for 16 years and still a bigger club than Bournemouth, Norwich, QPR, Stoke, Bolton, Wigan, Birmingham and plenty of others who were top flight (trophy winners in some cases).

Sunderland are now in League 1 and in my opinion still bigger than Leicester, in this country at least.

So what makes a big club? Why would you think that Sunderland are still bigger than Leicester, Fan base? History?
I do see what you are saying about Leicester, despite doing very well recently there's probably not too many people out there who would be completely shocked if they were back in the championship within 5 years.. they just don't seem like a big club, despite only 5 teams winning more pots over the last quarter of a century. Why is that I wonder?

 

[Lanolin]

I’d swap their last 25 years for ours, yes, but that doesn’t make them a bigger club.

Leeds were in league 1 out the Prem for 16 years and still a bigger club than Bournemouth, Norwich, QPR, Stoke, Bolton, Wigan, Birmingham and plenty of others who were top flight (trophy winners in some cases).

Sunderland are now in League 1 and in my opinion still bigger than Leicester, in this country at least.

What is it that makes Leeds a big club though? I'm not saying I disagree, i just think it's important to know what the criteria is. Leeds were founded 101 years ago, and since then have spent marginally longer in the top flight than out of it. They've won 6 domestic trophies, 5 of which came in a 10 year period between 1964 and 1974. What specifically makes them a bigger club than say Blackburn, who've spent more time in the top flight and won more trophies?

 

[Lanolin]

I suppose realistically it depends on who was a big club when you were growing up.

Some people still see Sheffield Wednesday as a big club (they are more of a sleeping giant I guess) because they were top flight regulars in the 80's.

I never see Leeds as a big club as when I was growing up I knew nothing about them as they were a second tier club for most of the 80's.

Of course, and that's fine as long as you acknowledge that's what you're doing. I just find it really weird when you get people insisting that Forest or someone are a bigger club 'traditionally' than Chelsea. They just aren't, but somehow people think that who was good when they were 15 defines who is and isn't a 'big club'.

 

[Azzurri]

What is it that makes Leeds a big club though? I'm not saying I disagree, i just think it's important to know what the criteria. Leeds were founded 101 years ago, and since then have spent marginally longer in the top flight than out of it. They've won 6 domestic trophies, 5 of which came in a 10 year period between 1964 and 1974. What specifically makes them a bigger club than say Blackburn, who've spent more time in the top flight and won more trophies?

Much bigger fan base, bigger stadium, bigger attendances. More relevance really. Even when they were in League 1 you’d still have fans up and down the country singing ‘We all hate Leeds scum’, and people giving it the big ‘oooh’ if they were drawn against a United, Spurs, Chelsea in the cup. Not even Blackburn fans care about Blackburn.

 

[Lanolin]

Much bigger fan base, bigger stadium, bigger attendances. More relevance really. Even when they were in League 1 you’d still have fans up and down the country singing ‘We all hate Leeds scum’, and people giving it the big ‘oooh’ if they were drawn against a United, Spurs, Chelsea in the cup. Not even Blackburn fans care about Blackburn.

That's one point dressed up as three really isn't it? I know Leeds are generally perceived to be a bigger club, but that's what I was getting at - why? You're effectively saying they're bigger because people think they're bigger. I do get what you mean, but what is the criteria for them being perceived that way? Is it just because there's fans who remember them being big in the 70s and go 'ooh' and nobody remembers Blackburn being good because it was so long ago?

 

[Azzurri]

That's one point dressed up as three really isn't it? I know Leeds are generally perceived to be a bigger club, but that's what I was getting at - why? You're effectively saying they're bigger because people think they're bigger. I do get what you mean, but what is the criteria for them being perceived that way? Is it just because there's fans who remember them being big in the 70s and go 'ooh' and nobody remembers Blackburn being good because it was so long ago?

Sort of, but I’m not in court so I’m not too bothered.

Well yeah but people think they’re bigger because they are. That’s how it generally works. Them being big in the 70s is still relevant (although less so every day), but Blackburn being good 100 years ago isn’t because everyone dead and games weren’t even on film. They were also in the Champions League semi final this century. They’ve got far more fans than Blackburn being the main point.

There’s no way you can argue with Leeds being a bigger club than any of the names I’ve mentioned there.

 

[Lanolin]

Sort of, but I’m not in court so I’m not too bothered.

Well yeah but people think they’re bigger because they are. That’s how it generally works. Them being big in the 70s is still relevant (although less so every day), but Blackburn being good 100 years ago isn’t because everyone dead and games weren’t even on film. They were also in the Champions League semi final this century. They’ve got far more fans than Blackburn being the main point.

There’s no way you can argue with Leeds being a bigger club than any of the names I’ve mentioned there.

I'm not, i'm genuinely asking the question. Your answer is evidently 'because people think they are', which is fine. I was just wondering if you personally had a reason why you thought they were bigger than some other clubs. I just think sometimes you get people saying 'Haha lol at Newcastle thinking they're a big club just because they've got a big fanbase' but then saying 'well Leeds are a big club because they've got a big fanbase'. It seems a bit odd to me that it's just a bit of an arbitrary line with no real rationale, so I was just wondering if you could shed any light on it.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Arsenal are 3rd most successful club in England so the answer Arsenal

 

[zukai12_]

Arsenal are bigger but I'm not sure if i can say why

They just are

 

[Azzurri]

I'm not, i'm genuinely asking the question. Your answer is evidently 'because people think they are', which is fine. I was just wondering if you personally had a reason why you thought they were bigger than some other clubs. I just think sometimes you get people saying 'Haha lol at Newcastle thinking they're a big club just because they've got a big fanbase' but then saying 'well Leeds are a big club because they've got a big fanbase'. It seems a bit odd to me that it's just a bit of an arbitrary line with no real rationale, so I was just wondering if you could shed any light on it.

I’ve told you, Leeds are a bigger club because they have a much bigger fanbase. It’s as simple as that.

Newcastle are a big club, just not as big as the Geordies think, which is why it’s funny to buzz off them when they get relegated.

It’s an arbitrary line because it can never be scientifically defined or proven in any way yes, but like I say a team with a much bigger fanbase than another will be a bigger club. When the fanbases are similar it comes down to trophies, sustained success, current status.

My answer isn’t ‘because people think they are’, I explained why I think that. You brought up ‘because people think they are’ and yes, relevance is part of being a big club.