Transfer Rumour Wilfried Gnonto

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Zatara said:
All i am saying is, if we sold all 3 today and had a £50mil budget for a single centre forward then Thelwell would have far more choice of a starting player to bring in.
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Isak at Newcastle seemed to be the last good Premier League investment at CF although he has had injury problems because of the amount of games / NE climate.

Evan Ferguson at Brighton looks full of promise,
DCL will be hard to replace if sold.
 
bluestevon said:
Zat, if we sell Beto (which we will try to do) then what we sell him for will simply cancel out what we have to pay for him this and next season, its not going to be a free 25m but simply the return of money we spent last season which we didn't actually have. Maupay is in the last year of his contract at the very best we may get a minimal fee for him of say 3m or so - Brentford know that they can put a loan offer in and we'd accept so it'll just be a token amount received.

DCL - yes we could likely get around the 20m or so mark for him, absolute tops 25m which I doubt.

Basically if we just sell DCL those funds will be used to pay off the Beto transfer.

If we sell Beto it'll be to pay off the money owed buying him.

Maupay will fetch us nothing besides a token amount.

Only by selling both DCL and Beto would we give ourselves maybe 20m or so to invest again.

It makes zero sense to do that.

Given in the last twenty years we have spent big money on two forwards who actually worked out Lukaku and Richy both of whom had shown they could do it in this league and I e who we knew for certain could as he'd been on loan the season prior with us.

and good money on roughly 10+ that have been shocking
Kean, Beto, Walcott, Tosun, Niasse, Maupay, Johnson, Beattie, Kone, Bakayoko etc...

One thing we are absolutely appalling at is buying strikers mate for big money.
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Whilst he didn't have the best first season and is raw I think it's a little unfair to say Beto is shocking given he has barely started ten games for us yet got what five goals? His all round game needs alot of work and we paid too much because it was on the drip but I think we need to give him more of a go before writing him off totally.
 

MikeH72 said:
Has there been any sort of movement on this deal in the last 3 weeks btw lads?
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£25mil agreed per Bobble i think...but Leeds want £15mil of that upfront so negotiations continue.

W84 Dum Freeze said:
Isak at Newcastle seemed to be the last good Premier League investment at CF although he has had injury problems because of the amount of games / NE climate.

Evan Ferguson at Brighton looks full of promise,
DCL will be hard to replace if sold.
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City: Haaland/Alvarez
Arsenal: Havertz/Jesus
Chelsea: Jackson/Lukaku + 4kids
RS: Nunez
United: Hojlund/Zirkzee
Spurs: Richarlison
Newcastle: Isak
Villa: Watkins/Archer/Duran
Brentford: Thiago/Toney
Wolves: Cunha
Bournemouth: Solanke
Brighton: Pedro/Ferguson
Forest: Awonyi
Fulham: Muniz


If we signed Gnonto (as i dont want to veer off topic) I suspect there may be only 5 clubs who have a worse starting centre forward than us in terms of quality and/or goal output. Not as many assists for Gnonto as many other teams could benefit from.

Of course its arguable but if our team has the 4th best (team effort) defence then if in simplistic terms, we had a top centre forward to put the ball in the net...we'd be top half based purely on goals conceded/scored.

Joao Pedro was someone I wanted us to sign from Watford and Ferguson is definitely a player that may be attainable now (under £50mil) but who may become a top player valued at a huge amount.

Looking at Beto, DCL & Chermiti i dont see anyone who is certain to score 12-15 goals this coming season.
 

Zatara said:
£25mil agreed per Bobble i think...but Leeds want £15mil of that upfront so negotiations continue.



City: Haaland/Alvarez
Arsenal: Havertz/Jesus
Chelsea: Jackson/Lukaku + 4kids
RS: Nunez
United: Hojlund/Zirkzee
Spurs: Richarlison
Newcastle: Isak
Villa: Watkins/Archer/Duran
Brentford: Thiago/Toney
Wolves: Cunha
Bournemouth: Solanke
Brighton: Pedro/Ferguson
Forest: Awonyi
Fulham: Muniz


If we signed Gnonto (as i dont want to veer off topic) I suspect there may be only 5 clubs who have a worse starting centre forward than us in terms of quality and/or goal output. Not as many assists for Gnonto as many other teams could benefit from.

Of course its arguable but if our team has the 4th best (team effort) defence then if in simplistic terms, we had a top centre forward to put the ball in the net...we'd be top half based purely on goals conceded/scored.

Joao Pedro was someone I wanted us to sign from Watford and Ferguson is definitely a player that may be attainable now (under £50mil) but who may become a top player valued at a huge amount.

Looking at Beto, DCL & Chermiti i dont see anyone who is certain to score 12-15 goals this coming season.
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we’re do you get this from?
it’s just not normal
 
caliblue said:
Never understood the love-in for Gnonto.

Yes, Mancini liked him because he was young, had potential and offered something different. But he did not really play any important matches, got most of his matches as a sub and didn't play well. He is nowhere near the current Italy squad and has not been involved in almost a year. Moise Kean has been in the Italy squad since Gnonto was involved.

Sure, he would strengthen the squad and offer something different. But the way Everton play (and always will play with Dyche as a manager) wingers are chosen from what they offer without the ball. They will spend most of the time deep on their own half. Most full backs in the league are more offensive than Everton wingers. That is by design. And we don't do plan B.

The way Dyche refused to play both Gray and Danjuma wide because he didn't trust them defensively, makes it unlikely that Gnonto will be a regular starter for Everton as long as Dyche has a say.

Lots have been said and written about getting in young players and focus on resell value. Rightly so. But to pay premium for young players and not play them is bad business. Whatever we consider a 20 year old Gnonto to be worth can easily be halved within 12 months if he doesn't get starts for a team such as Everton.

Transfermarkt currently has Gnonto's value at €16 million. I doubt many clubs are willing to pay that. And I don't expect Leeds to be willing to sell him for less than £22-25 million? With reasonable pricing there would be lots of interest for him, but clubs that knows what they are doing all seem to stay away.
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Plus based in last year’s events his character looks really unstable
 
Zatara said:
Remember, Beto's payments are on the balance sheet -- as are Maupays. Clearly, they still need to be paid off.

If we sell them, those payments are still on the balance sheet but there would be additional incoming payments if we sold them.

Meaning, if we have already factored in those upcoming payments (which we have) then by selling them we are able to open up the same budgets that we would be paying--as long as we sell to cover the balance of payment. With an additional sale of DCL then that will be possible.

So, if we sold Beto & Maupay for the same as the upcoming payments due (e.g £25mil Beto & £4mil Maupay) then we are then able to open up those upcoming payments for elsewhere...if at a small loss e.g £23mil total then a DCL sale (e.g £25mil) covers that loss (£25mil DCL, £3mil Maupay and e.g £20mil Beto leaves £42mil) and we are able to still see a higher amount available not to mention wages removed from the books.



Our highest fees paid for centre forwards:
www.transfermarkt.com

Everton FC - Record arrivals

This transfer statistic shows the compact view of the most expensive signings by Everton in the Overall statistics of current season season.
www.transfermarkt.com www.transfermarkt.com

Obviously, Richarlison, Ndiaye and Deulofeu arent really centre forwards.

I'd argue only Yakubu, Johnson, Lukaku, Ferguson and Cottee were sizeable fees at the time of purchase. Which of them flopped?

What would a sizeable fee for the club be now looking at the overall transfer market and player values and fees?

A £25mil signing becomes our 3rd highest centre forward transfer -- were in for Gnonto at that fee in a lower value position (in terms of fees).

Lukaku was signed 10 years ago for £28mil. That's our record centre forward signing...

The logic here shows that (as i posted earlier):

DCL was signed as an u21 player based on potential for £1.5mil

Maupay was signed by Lampard/Kenwright as we had limited funds for £12-15mil

Beto was signed as he was the best we could attract for zero downpayment

None of the 3 have been signed using a large budget for a first choice centre forward.

All i am saying is, if we sold all 3 today and had a £50mil budget for a single centre forward then Thelwell would have far more choice of a starting player to bring in.

Thats what our history of high priced centre forward transfers hss shown us in the premier league era.
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Ok zat, in terms of our at the time record signings for the clubs history - which I can assume you realise translates to a massive fee for that period in time.

Amokachi, Ferguson, Beattie, Johnson, Yakubu, Lukaku all broke our transfer record.

Of those one was an unbridled success, one became a cult hero, one was okayish, three flopped dramatically.

I'll put these down in numbers if appearances and goals.

Amokachi 43 games 10 goals.
Ferguson 238 games 60 goals
Beattie 76 games 13 goals
Johnson 61 games 17 goals
Yakubu 82 games 25 goals
Lukaku 141 games 68 goals.

Only one of them had a strike rate above 1 in 3 which is an average overall a full season of 13 goals.

Over the course of a full season 38 games there expected strike rate would be as follows (rounding up)

Amokachi 9 goals
Ferguson 10 goals
Beattie 7 goals
Johnson 10 goals
Yakubu 12 goals
Lukaku 18 goals

For comparisons sake lets take DCL
215 games 54 goals for a season average of 10 per season +the sane as Ferguson interestingly)

Or for amusements sake lets look at Niasse
Games 35 goals 8 a season average of 9.

So yes I'd argue for our record ever club signings a return if at best 12 goals per season from Yakubu was a flop as he was an out and out finisher who provided little else to the team, the others are all 10 or less per season, only Lukaku was worth what we paid .


A a further illustrator Trevor Steven averaged 9 per 38 games, Kanchelskis 14, Speed 10, Richarlison 12.

Cottee btw came in at 15.

As for your payments logic, you are assuming that the club did not factor in selling and a takeover when negotiating something like the Beto deal, and that with those factors changing we are now faced with an oh [Poor language removed] we have to pay 12m this season moment hence selling him to cover that payment not to suddenly give us more cash - which is btw almost certainly the case why we are wanting to yo offload him - not selling Beto restricts us as it pretty much drains available funds this season in other areas - if we sell him it's so that we don't have to use the budget assigned to buy a cb, cm or rb etc to pay for Beto.

It's not free money to throw to a new central forward mate, i dint think you grasp just how restricted our finances ate, i truly don't.

In a squad with very very obvious needs still and very little depth and in some cases no depth at all you want to sell both our forwards and throw it all on one player, absolute f'ing madness
 
bluestevon said:
Ok zat, in terms of our at the time record signings for the clubs history - which I can assume you realise translates to a massive fee for that period in time.

Amokachi, Ferguson, Beattie, Johnson, Yakubu, Lukaku all broke our transfer record.

Of those one was an unbridled success, one became a cult hero, one was okayish, three flopped dramatically.

I'll put these down in numbers if appearances and goals.

Amokachi 43 games 10 goals.
Ferguson 238 games 60 goals
Beattie 76 games 13 goals
Johnson 61 games 17 goals
Yakubu 82 games 25 goals
Lukaku 141 games 68 goals.

Only one of them had a strike rate above 1 in 3 which is an average overall a full season of 13 goals.

Over the course of a full season 38 games there expected strike rate would be as follows (rounding up)

Amokachi 9 goals
Ferguson 10 goals
Beattie 7 goals
Johnson 10 goals
Yakubu 12 goals
Lukaku 18 goals

For comparisons sake lets take DCL
215 games 54 goals for a season average of 10 per season +the sane as Ferguson interestingly)

Or for amusements sake lets look at Niasse
Games 35 goals 8 a season average of 9.

So yes I'd argue for our record ever club signings a return if at best 12 goals per season from Yakubu was a flop as he was an out and out finisher who provided little else to the team, the others are all 10 or less per season, only Lukaku was worth what we paid .


A a further illustrator Trevor Steven averaged 9 per 38 games, Kanchelskis 14, Speed 10, Richarlison 12.

Cottee btw came in at 15.

As for your payments logic, you are assuming that the club did not factor in selling and a takeover when negotiating something like the Beto deal, and that with those factors changing we are now faced with an oh [Poor language removed] we have to pay 12m this season moment hence selling him to cover that payment not to suddenly give us more cash - which is btw almost certainly the case why we are wanting to yo offload him - not selling Beto restricts us as it pretty much drains available funds this season in other areas - if we sell him it's so that we don't have to use the budget assigned to buy a cb, cm or rb etc to pay for Beto.

It's not free money to throw to a new central forward mate, i dint think you grasp just how restricted our finances ate, i truly don't.

In a squad with very very obvious needs still and very little depth and in some cases no depth at all you want to sell both our forwards and throw it all on one player, absolute f'ing madness
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I can't see a world where anyone pays us what we would need for Beto either. Especially as he effectively flopped last season. Maybe someone offers a loan. But that wouldn't really help us at all in having new funds.

I can see the argument for selling DCL, as it's pure profit against him leaving for free. I hope he signs a new deal and stays, but I can sort of see how someone might panic buy him for 25m. But I don't see it with Beto.

I get the theory of having fewer, better players. But presently Im doubtful Ferguson from Brighton wants to come here, or many other 50m options do. And as we have seen with Beto, it's a hard league to come and adjust too.

The optimist in me thinks the season will do Beto some good, he gets a full pre season now, and players better suited to his game. It's not going to allow him to control a ball, but maybe he can finish some chances a bit better and be more physical.

There is also a chance you get a bit of a none linear break out from Chermiti.
 

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