Will Martinez ever lead us to the Champions League?

[oldblue]

I think the possession is key and how they press as soon as they lose it. I don't think we press high enough up the pitch. And we have an non-athletic defensive midfielder when we do get caught up field.

To me, there's lots of elements to the defensive side of things that make a team strong. Just thought if he ever went for a defensive coach it would be best to pick someone who is used to the style Martinez aspires to.

Fair point, honestly it's hard to think who the hell could do that job as most assistants work goes unnoticed really - take Dortmund for example, not telling me that was all Klopp and his assistants didn't have a good input into the way the team played

There is a lot of people think Harvey had as much, maybe even more, to do with the 84/5 86/7 success than Kendall. Problem is people in the English game do see coaches as not that important at times so Harvey's failed management maybe had as much to do with Harvey not being there as coach. If that makes sense.

 

[bluestevon]

There is a lot of people think Harvey had as much, maybe even more, to do with the 84/5 86/7 success than Kendall. Problem is people in the English game do see coaches as not that important at times so Harvey's failed management maybe had as much to do with Harvey not being there as coach. If that makes sense.

I'm one of those people mate who thinks he did.

a great number 2 doesn't always translate well into the top job though due to a completely different skillset needed.

Biggest example i can think of about a massively influential assistant manager is Peter Taylor though, Clough wouldn't have had the same success in a million years without him

 

[AaronTheBlue]

Think Benteke brings an attack together better than Lukaku as it stands and uses his body better. Rom has shown signs of improvement though.

I'm not sure mate, Lukaku can literally do everything Benteke can do, but Benteke can't take the ball, run up the field / out muscle, and out pace defenders like Rom can.

 

[oldblue]

I'm one of those people mate who thinks he did.

a great number 2 doesn't always translate well into the top job though due to a completely different skillset needed.

Biggest example i can think of about a massively influential assistant manager is Peter Taylor though, Clough wouldn't have had the same success in a million years without him

think clough admitted that in time. Decent on his own, brilliant with Taylor there.
Too many managers believe their own hype, best ones recognise they are part of a team

 

[Nobby Nobbs]

disagree, Lukaku can do EVERYTHING benteke can, but beneteke can't do everything Lukaku can.

Lukaku far better for me, and will go on to have much better career.

When have you see Lukaku out jump a center half, when was the last time you've seen Lukaku control the ball when played into him the ball bounces about three feet away from him he can.t hold the ball up and bring in other players, when was the last time he dominated a CH hardly ever, how often is he caught offside because he never bothers to get back onside, I know he's only 21? and should get better time will only tell.

 

[AaronTheBlue]

When have you see Lukaku out jump a center half, when was the last time you've seen Lukaku control the ball when played into him the ball bounces about three feet away from him he can.t hold the ball up and bring in other players, when was the last time he dominated a CH hardly ever, how often is he caught offside because he never bothers to get back onside, I know he's only 21? and should get better time will only tell.

Seen it loads of times mate, you must not watch much of everton.

His goals against West ham when he made his debut, and then in the derby he outleaped defenders to score two headers.


He can hold up the ball and has done it multiple times for Everton, even in a lot of games this season.

Think you're talking nonsense.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I'm not sure mate, Lukaku can literally do everything Benteke can do, but Benteke can't take the ball, run up the field / out muscle, and out pace defenders like Rom can.

Lukaku is really poor in the air in comparison to Benteke but considering neither side play a crossing game that difference is kind of negated. In every other aspect id pick Lukaku. I honestly don't think Benteke will ever be as good as he was at Villa. Top sides just don't play how Sherwood and Lambert did with fullbacks hitting deep early crosses. He was best in the league at attacking the diagonal balls but to be honest I've not seen him ever look good on the deck. Lukaku needs work as well but at least he can get in behind and finish.

 

[bluemangroup]

I'm not sure mate, Lukaku can literally do everything Benteke can do, but Benteke can't take the ball, run up the field / out muscle, and out pace defenders like Rom can.

Yeah I'm not sure he can yet. Benteke was brilliant in a fairly average Villa side. Lukaku is pretty good in a very handy Everton side.

 

[AaronTheBlue]

Yeah I'm not sure he can yet. Benteke was brilliant in a fairly average Villa side. Lukaku is pretty good in a very handy Everton side.

hmm.. again i'd have to argue the point, villas side were literally put out to get benteke goals, Whilst we, hardly created many chances for Lukaku at all, hence the need for this 'playmaker/number 10'

literally Villa under sherwood just put a team out to get benteke goals, whilst under lambert he played more how we used Lukaku last season, and struggled.

 

[bluestevon]

When have you see Lukaku out jump a center half, when was the last time you've seen Lukaku control the ball when played into him the ball bounces about three feet away from him he can.t hold the ball up and bring in other players, when was the last time he dominated a CH hardly ever, how often is he caught offside because he never bothers to get back onside, I know he's only 21? and should get better time will only tell.

As your spouting nonsense here ya go mate enjoy the stats and maybe they will make you have a think before putting your foot in it next time

Offsides (2014-15)

Christian Benteke (Aston Villa) – 36 (2886 minutes played)

Romelu Lukaku (Everton) – 36 (2376 minutes played)

Charlie Austin (QPR) – 35 (3066 minutes played)

In case you need that explaining - Benteke was by a mile the worst player in the league for offsides last season mate same number as Lukaku but 500 minutes less time

 

[maccavennie]

I get what you're saying but with the Watford example, anything can happen in a one off game. Over the course of a season, or over the course of a few years, clearly money talks. City didn't get to where they are through good managers.

of course mate, sorry just using the Watford game was a bad example.

Perhaps a better one woukd have been the season we finished 5th the 1st time around. I think there will easily be 4-5 games where we could say "well there was 3 points or 2 points dropped" and over a course of a season that's the extra 8-10 points needed to get into the CL.

no doubt money helps as you can pick the cream of the crop. But I'm a firm believer in the mental side of football and how players perform under pressure, manager reacts to certain situations etc

I remember a few years ago ( maybe 3 or 4 )and Osman had a weekly article in a paper. Before a ball had been kicked in anger he said "my tip for the title is Chelsea". Doesn't matter if he was right, what was wrong with that was his mindset before a ball had been kicked. Beaten before the first whistle blew. It's not about being a realist, it's about your mental attitude and believing we can be competitive.

Funnily enough, I mentioned Martinez's successor will reap the benefits. Well if this current board are still here in the next year or two I reckon it will be Moyes lol

 

[roydo]

This just shows how fruitless it is to compare a player you watch every week, to one you see 8 minutes of every week.

 

[bluemangroup]

hmm.. again i'd have to argue the point, villas side were literally put out to get benteke goals, Whilst we, hardly created many chances for Lukaku at all, hence the need for this 'playmaker/number 10'

literally Villa under sherwood just put a team out to get benteke goals, whilst under lambert he played more how we used Lukaku last season, and struggled.

Possibly so and it is just my opinion but Benteke felt a more consistently dangerous player at Villa than Lukaku did. And his ability to hold a ball up well meant that attacks didn't break down as much.

 

[riddick]

I think the possession is key and how they press as soon as they lose it. I don't think we press high enough up the pitch. And we have an non-athletic defensive midfielder when we do get caught up field.

We pretty much dont press at all. Thats what makes no sense ot me about Martinez's 'system'. If he wants us to be a possession based team, they should be hunting down the ball whenever they dont have it. They basically stand off almost all the time. I cant say with any conviction Martinez will bring us to the Champions League if I cant even really figure out how we play.

 

[TheCount]

think pressing teams in their half is one of the reasons we haven't mastered this yet. still too many of our midfield and forward line don't see that as part of their role. McCarthy and Barry even though defensive minded will always want to sit in our half. I think we would be better with an attack minded midfielder replacing either (preferably Barry) who was prepared to snap at their back four. Ultimately though it is a mindset and it's not there yet

Besic McCarthy Barkley Lennon Del/Kev

Could be a good midfield to perform a high press given the right instruction.