Will Martinez ever lead us to the Champions League?

[TheCount]

This just shows how fruitless it is to compare a player you watch every week, to one you see 8 minutes of every week.

Bingo

 

[riddick]

As your spouting nonsense here ya go mate enjoy the stats and maybe they will make you have a think before putting your foot in it next time

Offsides (2014-15)

Christian Benteke (Aston Villa) – 36 (2886 minutes played)

Romelu Lukaku (Everton) – 36 (2376 minutes played)

Charlie Austin (QPR) – 35 (3066 minutes played)

In case you need that explaining - Benteke was by a mile the worst player in the league for offsides last season mate same number as Lukaku but 500 minutes less time

Ehmm....does it not say that Benteke played ~500 MORE minutes than Lukaku?

 

[bluestevon]

Besic McCarthy Barkley Lennon Del/Kev

Could be a good midfield to perform a high press given the right instruction.

Throw cleverley into that mix when fit, has the best engine in the squad

 

[Polish_Blue_Army]

No one will. Our realistic target is to play in the europa league for the most of the seasons. That actually can be achieved

 

[bluestevon]

Ehmm....does it not say that Benteke played ~500 MORE minutes than Lukaku?

Aye mate, got that sounding confusing up as meant but obvious from what i was saying that meant the other way round

 

[riddick]

Aye mate, got that mixed up but obvious from what i was saying that meant the other way round

Gotcha, thought thats what you meant but just got confused.

 

[Nobby Nobbs]

As your spouting nonsense here ya go mate enjoy the stats and maybe they will make you have a think before putting your foot in it next time

Offsides (2014-15)

Christian Benteke (Aston Villa) – 36 (2886 minutes played)

Romelu Lukaku (Everton) – 36 (2376 minutes played)

Charlie Austin (QPR) – 35 (3066 minutes played)

In case you need that explaining - Benteke was by a mile the worst player in the league for offsides last season mate same number as Lukaku but 500 minutes less time

Where did I say Benteke was not offside as much as Lukaku so read what I said before you accuse me of talking nonsense, it's constantly frustrating to see Lukaku being caught offside and I'm sue the Villa fans would say the same about Benteke if your stats are right, and since you never accused me of talking nonsense regarding the other points I take it you agree with me.

 

[Pienaar'sdisciple]

Errrr you serious mate?

Lukaku brought to the club at 20 permanently signed at 21
Deulofeu brought the club at 19 permanently signed at 21
McCarthy brought to the club at 22
Galloway brought to the club at 18
Holgate - brought to the club at 18 - and highly touted

Basically what your saying is he didn't bring Barkley and Stones (although one of those was an academy player and he all but signed the other for Wigan until we gazzumped them last minute) because all the other young players he did bring in...

Also the first two sentences i highlighted you have contradicted yourself massively

McCarthy hasn't proved to be anything more than a decent player, and isn't going to get any better really. Lukaku and Deulofeu are the solid ones and apart from that what has he done? The other players you mention still have a long way to go.

He's been here since 2013 and Deulofeu and Lukaku is all he has picked up of real quality from the market. Everyone else was already here. That's 3 transfer windows. Then of course there's McGeady, Alcaraz and a whole host of useless transfer he's made. Does that sound like someone getting us to the CL?

When he has the talent he generally knows what to do with it(well, that's apart from Atsu whom he didn't use) but the problem is ofcourse we don't have all that talent already here and the first matter at hand for the manager to take care of was transforming this squad into a top 4 quality squad. He hasn't done that and hasn't looked like doing it.

Don't know what contradiction you're talking about.

 

[mythbuster]

Where did I say Benteke was not offside as much as Lukaku so read what I said before you accuse me of talking nonsense, it's constantly frustrating to see Lukaku being caught offside and I'm sue the Villa fans would say the same about Benteke if your stats are right, and since you never accused me of talking nonsense regarding the other points I take it you agree with me.

Lukaku is much more mobile than Benteke. He moves out wide/into the channels a lot more. He also looks to get in behind defenders more.

Seeing as Benteke spends most of his time with his back to goal (in front of defenders) then his offside ratio should easily be better than Rom's, but it's not.

 

[deipnosophist]

The merit payment component of broadcast revenue increases significantly from next season. Everton is in a bun fight for the 5th-11th place 'trophy'. Champions League?...no.

 

[oldblue]

Besic McCarthy Barkley Lennon Del/Kev

Could be a good midfield to perform a high press given the right instruction.

all mobile enough and fluid enough positionally. comes back to getting in a coach who works on it with them

 

[a bell maul]

I think RM can get us CL but only if he utilises Naismith's talents...that lad runs his sock off.

 

[bluestevon]

McCarthy hasn't proved to be anything more than a decent player, and isn't going to get any better really. Lukaku and Deulofeu are the solid ones and apart from that what has he done? The other players you mention still have a long way to go.

He's been here since 2013 and Deulofeu and Lukaku is all he has picked up of real quality from the market. Everyone else was already here. That's 3 transfer windows. Then of course there's McGeady, Alcaraz and a whole host of useless transfer he's made. Does that sound like someone getting us to the CL?

When he has the talent he generally knows what to do with it(well, that's apart from Atsu whom he didn't use) but the problem is ofcourse we don't have all that talent already here and the first matter at hand for the manager to take care of was transforming this squad into a top 4 quality squad. He hasn't done that and hasn't looked like doing it.

Don't know what contradiction you're talking about.

So you don't rate Cleverley, Lennon, Besic (forgot how young he was when i was listing players tbh), Barry was a absolutely superb addition for the first season - can argue the toss about him since then - but to discount it as a good bit of transfer business is absurd given he was stellar when we finished 5th

McGeady and Alcaraz cost like 500k between them mate - hardly earthshaking bad like, Kone got crocked but was still an extravagant but was made to look worse by his injury, Robles is a back up keeper no more no less. if you include all those together your looking at about 9m of 'wasted' spend, roughly what we got for Anichebe and half of Jelavic (2 pretty useless players themselves), show me any manager who has a 100% success rate? far as i can see Martinez's so far here has been a hell of a lot better than most

 

[Samps]

McCarthy hasn't proved to be anything more than a decent player, and isn't going to get any better really. Lukaku and Deulofeu are the solid ones and apart from that what has he done? The other players you mention still have a long way to go.

He's been here since 2013 and Deulofeu and Lukaku is all he has picked up of real quality from the market. Everyone else was already here. That's 3 transfer windows. Then of course there's McGeady, Alcaraz and a whole host of useless transfer he's made. Does that sound like someone getting us to the CL?

When he has the talent he generally knows what to do with it(well, that's apart from Atsu whom he didn't use) but the problem is ofcourse we don't have all that talent already here and the first matter at hand for the manager to take care of was transforming this squad into a top 4 quality squad. He hasn't done that and hasn't looked like doing it.

Don't know what contradiction you're talking about.

By anyone's measure that is an incredibly negative appraisal of Martinez' progress towards building the solid foundation of a young team capable of growing together and increasingly challenging for titles.

If you want to promote youth, this has to be balanced against expectation of immediate results. On that measure, Martinez has done a great job of getting the compromise broadly right - 13/14 would have been a CL qualifying league performance in literally any other year, and last year saw us do very well in the Europa with a team who were largely untested in continental competition, albeit at the expense of our league performance. That to me is not insignificant - but for a freak season he would have achieved his stated aim after less than one year at the club.

With that in mind, in my humble opinion we should now be judging him according to his ability to replicate and build upon the 13/14 league performance with a largely improved squad, and then his ability to get further in Europe next season should we qualify. If he fails either of these tests, then and only then should your levels of negative criticism be trotted out against him, as only then can he empirically be shown to have regressed in terms of his management performance. And that's before we even consider the vastly different set of financial considerations prevalent in the BPL from when he took over.

 

[Pabbers]

Lukaku, Mirallas, Deulofeu, Barkley. Apart from Kane I can't think of players from either side you'd have in a front four over these?

Your point on the defence is my point exactly. We have better individuals but they are not a good defence....because of the manager.

All you have to say is would Mourinho or Ferguson, or Wenger or Pellegrini have us top 4? Most probably yes. I know they're some of the best prem managers but my point is finances help a lot but we can get a better manager than Martinez who could crack the top 4 without huge financial outlay.

Ericksen and that new chap they have paid £20 million for are better or atleast as good as our "attackers". Remember we are buying a player who could not even get in their first team squad, as a starter for us.

Don't agree with your last point at all, Wenger can only just get his team in the top 4, Fergy broke a transfer record at every transfer window....he broke it 3 times in his first season.....top manager need money too, having money gets you to success quicker.

We have cracking startin 11, and the depth of the squad is getting better, but its not good enough for any manager to just rock up walk into the top 4.