Will Martinez ever lead us to the Champions League?

[Kiwi]

I don't see the shouts for Gary Neville or Carragher at all, just because someone can talk a bit of sense on a tv doesn't mean that'll translate at all well into practical reality. If we were talking seriously about this I'd be bringing in someone with plenty of experience to temper Martinez's relative youth.

Having said that I think Martinez has shown a bit of a pragmatic side to himself and his tactics at times, he just needs to find that balance between dreamy optimism and bringing a knife to a gun fight.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Gary Neville/Martinez Ticket? Dream or nightmare?

If Neville is happy presiding over the dross England serve up then I don't want him anywhere near Everton.

 

[oldblue]

I don't see the shouts for Gary Neville or Carragher at all, just because someone can talk a bit of sense on a tv doesn't mean that'll translate at all well into practical reality. If we were talking seriously about this I'd be bringing in someone with plenty of experience to temper Martinez's relative youth.

Having said that I think Martinez has shown a bit of a pragmatic side to himself and his tactics at times, he just needs to find that balance between dreamy optimism and bringing a knife to a gun fight.

definitely shown willingness to adapt at times towards end of last season and start of this but doesn't feel like it's a natural instinct yet. I accept it probably does need an experienced head rather than taking a gamble but the big question as ever is who would accept that role at Everton when they have the cv.
Anyway even bigger question is whether anyone at the club is even thinking this way.

 

[Huyton Layne]

Once England loses its 4th CL spot we won't have to worry about this discussion any more.

 

[bluestevon]

@oldblue I would be against hiring a pundit over a coach.

If he did look to bring in a defensive coach you'd hope he'd look to one of the top Italian clubs, maybe poach an up and coming youth team coach.

Even more ideally, someone from or with experience of La Masia, they'd already suit his possession based style but with a defensive mindset. Barca defensive record is excellent (current preseason not included).

Mate isn't that more the fact that Barca have 90% of the ball every game and don't tend to lose it in suicidal areas, not about being good defensively more about being able to play that possession game exceptionally well, us for instance are really a bit gash with it

 

[Pienaar'sdisciple]

There isn't a manager in the world who could fill the squad with quality players on our budget ffs. It's absolutely ridiculous for anybody to expect that. Obviously some signings won't pay off and we don't have the money to splash on endless replacements when they don't, that's an issue you need to take up with the board, not Martinez.

For what it's worth I think he's done more good than bad in the transfer market. I don't know how you can say he's not took any risks when he's just spent £10m on two players none of us have heard of, and you're writing them off before they've even played. If you really can't see and appreciate the focus he's putting on the youth, bringing quality youngsters in to bring through then you must have an agenda against the man because that's about as creative as you can be when you don't have the luxuries of Chelsea, City, Liverpool etc. It's going to take time.

Not to mention he's instilled some pride back into the club. Talking us up to get in the CL, win leagues, hasn't allowed anybody belittle us or be bullied. He recognises what a massive club this is. Give me that over knives to a gunfight any day.

Its been done before, on a budget. Our club hasn't got the means to blow money on the market all willy nilly so quite frankly we'd need someone at the head that's going to recruit with real intelligence. We haven't done that. We've signed all of Wigan and are now signing unknowns who we hope we'll be good enough.

Bringing through youth isn't the only way to do it. Its about capitalising on other clubs' mistakes. As I said in another thread, the big clubs continuously make mistakes in terms who they believe has it, and who they don't. There's an incredible amount of wasted talent in football atm, we should be at the forefront of that and maybe, just maybe the club would grow.

Selling us all these dreams and then going out and signing lennon, Cleverley, and Barry isn't going to be taking us anywhere. He can scream to the hills about us and CL football but it aint happening like this.

What quality youngsters has he brought in? The best youngsters we have were here long before he got the gig. You say some signings won't pay off but the truth is the majority of the signings he's made haven't payed off.

What agenda would I have against him? I'm not saying that he should get fired or whatever. All I'm saying is he won't be taking us to the next level or anything like that. He just doesn't have enough about him to be the clubs saviour.

 

[AaronTheBlue]

we have a better attacking line than liverpool.

Lukaku, Barkley, Mirallas, Deulofeu and even Lennon to an extent.


Origi isn't very good, Ings is okay but wont get game time, they have no wingers which cancels out a lot of a threat for Benteke, who i don't think is better than Lukaku to begin with.

 

[TheCount]

Mate isn't that more the fact that Barca have 90% of the ball every game and don't tend to lose it in suicidal areas, not about being good defensively more about being able to play that possession game exceptionally well, us for instance are really a bit gash with it

I think the possession is key and how they press as soon as they lose it. I don't think we press high enough up the pitch. And we have an non-athletic defensive midfielder when we do get caught up field.

To me, there's lots of elements to the defensive side of things that make a team strong. Just thought if he ever went for a defensive coach it would be best to pick someone who is used to the style Martinez aspires to.

 

[Nobby Nobbs]

which cancels out a lot of a threat for Benteke, who i don't think is better than Lukaku to begin with.

Sorry mate have to disagree with that last bit I'd take Benteke over Lukaku everytime.

 

[AaronTheBlue]

Sorry mate have to disagree with that last bit I'd take Benteke over Lukaku everytime.

disagree, Lukaku can do EVERYTHING benteke can, but beneteke can't do everything Lukaku can.

Lukaku far better for me, and will go on to have much better career.

 

[bluestevon]

Its been done before, on a budget. Our club hasn't got the means to blow money on the market all willy nilly so quite frankly we'd need someone at the head that's going to recruit with real intelligence. We haven't done that. We've signed all of Wigan and are now signing unknowns who we hope we'll be good enough.

Bringing through youth isn't the only way to do it. Its about capitalising on other clubs' mistakes. As I said in another thread, the big clubs continuously make mistakes in terms who they believe has it, and who they don't. There's an incredible amount of wasted talent in football atm, we should be at the forefront of that and maybe, just maybe the club would grow.

Selling us all these dreams and then going out and signing lennon, Cleverley, and Barry isn't going to be taking us anywhere. He can scream to the hills about us and CL football but it aint happening like this.

What quality youngsters has he brought in? The best youngsters we have were here long before he got the gig. You say some signings won't pay off but the truth is the majority of the signings he's made haven't payed off.

What agenda would I have against him? I'm not saying that he should get fired or whatever. All I'm saying is he won't be taking us to the next level or anything like that. He just doesn't have enough about him to be the clubs saviour.

Errrr you serious mate?

Lukaku brought to the club at 20 permanently signed at 21
Deulofeu brought the club at 19 permanently signed at 21
McCarthy brought to the club at 22
Galloway brought to the club at 18
Holgate - brought to the club at 18 - and highly touted

Basically what your saying is he didn't bring Barkley and Stones (although one of those was an academy player and he all but signed the other for Wigan until we gazzumped them last minute) because all the other young players he did bring in...

Also the first two sentences i highlighted you have contradicted yourself massively

 

[bluemangroup]

disagree, Lukaku can do EVERYTHING benteke can, but beneteke can't do everything Lukaku can.

Lukaku far better for me, and will go on to have much better career.

Think Benteke brings an attack together better than Lukaku as it stands and uses his body better. Rom has shown signs of improvement though.

 

[bluestevon]

disagree, Lukaku can do EVERYTHING benteke can, but beneteke can't do everything Lukaku can.

Lukaku far better for me, and will go on to have much better career.

Then throw in the fact one is 3 years younger and hasn't blown his knee out in the past

 

[bluestevon]

I think the possession is key and how they press as soon as they lose it. I don't think we press high enough up the pitch. And we have an non-athletic defensive midfielder when we do get caught up field.

To me, there's lots of elements to the defensive side of things that make a team strong. Just thought if he ever went for a defensive coach it would be best to pick someone who is used to the style Martinez aspires to.

Fair point, honestly it's hard to think who the hell could do that job as most assistants work goes unnoticed really - take Dortmund for example, not telling me that was all Klopp and his assistants didn't have a good input into the way the team played

 

[oldblue]

I think the possession is key and how they press as soon as they lose it. I don't think we press high enough up the pitch. And we have an non-athletic defensive midfielder when we do get caught up field.

To me, there's lots of elements to the defensive side of things that make a team strong. Just thought if he ever went for a defensive coach it would be best to pick someone who is used to the style Martinez aspires to.

think pressing teams in their half is one of the reasons we haven't mastered this yet. still too many of our midfield and forward line don't see that as part of their role. McCarthy and Barry even though defensive minded will always want to sit in our half. I think we would be better with an attack minded midfielder replacing either (preferably Barry) who was prepared to snap at their back four. Ultimately though it is a mindset and it's not there yet