Would you take Martinez back?

[davek]

What is all this unnecessary nonsense?

We finished 11th twice in his last 2 seasons.

Again I will try to help you understand - He was hounded out as we kept getting walloped in football matches and won only 5 home games all season.

that’s it, no other reasons, stop making things up for once.

He had 1 great season (with Moyes defence) then once he dismantled that we went backwards.

He took over a side that consistently finished top 6 and was able to maintain that for 1 season only.

Doesn't detract from my major point here: those most vociferous to get him out where the ones who were certain that Moshiri was a genuine fast track to the big time. They were fooled on that and then - instead of getting angry at the carpetbagger - re-focussed their attack on the man they wanted out, to convince themselves they knew what they'd done was the right thing to do.

A bit of self analysis by the people mugged off by Moshiri is in order on this. Because the facts dont fit their agenda: RM has done very well wherever he's been in football. Moshiri on the other hand is an utter bungler and fake...and you lot fell for it.

 

[davek]

That Dave is not a fair comparison, Moshiri was not a manager and Martinez was not the owner. You are letting your obsession get carried away.

Compare brown shoes to last 3 of Moyes, other seasons with brown shoes replacements. If I rememebr correctly his last season was yuk.

Again: I dont put Martinez up there and not to be shot at. I just know that there;s a lot more to the story than the mickey mouse version of Orwellian history many fans put forward on Martinez's period here.

 

[mkrudden]

I don’t think all of this is true. The squad wasn’t on its last legs. It had some older players Dustin Howard Osman Pienaar and Cahill and Neville left with Moyes. He had players in their prime though such as Fellaini Jelavic Baines Coleman Jagielka Naismith Gibson Heitinga Oviedo

He pretty much dismantled that core of players though and created a squad of dads and lads. He backed his idea of a few young stars in amongst cheap older players. That said we forked our our club record fee for a striker, club record fee for a midfielder and club record fee for a defender T the time under his watch. We even paid out 5 million for the Barry loan, what Moyes would have given for all of that.

The squad we ended up with was completely unbalanced and predicated the problems that Koeman then compounded by buying what he saw as prem ready players like Bolasie Siggurdson Williams etc. just to fill the gaps in the squad between youngster and veteran.

You should be thanking Martinez, SD, for getting one final fantastic year out of that team.

Distin and Howard had arguably their best season under Martinez. Unfortunately they both became a car crash early the season after. Remember Distin vs Swansea in the cup? Horrible to watch.

And pull the other one with these players in their 'prime':

Fellaini - agreed but 27m was good money for someone who needs a very specific game plan to work. We replaced with Barkley in that position and finished 5th.
Jelavic - absolutely crap
Baines - agreed and he did well under Martinez
Coleman - agreed - like Baines had arguably his best season under Martinez
Jagielka - agreed and he did well under Martinez
Naismith - a very limited player, you and I know it. Barely played under Moyes and Martinez turns him into a hat-trick hero vs Chelsea
Gibson - unarguably a sicknote. Was publically said to be the Pivot-in-waiting in pre-season of Martinez season 1. We brought an actual midfielder in McCarthy and Barry and see what happened.
Heitinga - was POTY under Moyes in his penultimate season, then immediately displaced the season after with Distin and Jagielka back from injury. So you're blaming Martinez when your boy Moyes didn't even play him.
Oviedo - barely played under Moyes, Martinez turns him into a Baines heir-apparent.

You don't like Bobby and that's absolutely fine - your decision. But to suggest he didn't do well with the limited resources he had is madness.

 

[Thomasc]

Doesn't detract from my major point here: those most vociferous to get him out where the ones who were certain that Moshiri was a genuine fast track to the big time. They were fooled on that and then - instead of getting angry at the carpetbagger - re-focussed their attack on the man they wanted out, to convince themselves they knew what they'd done was the right thing to do.

A bit of self analysis by the people mugged off by Moshiri is in order on this. Because the facts dont fit their agenda: RM has done very well wherever he's been in football. Moshiri on the other hand is an utter bungler and fake...and you lot fell for it.

the imaginary world in which you reside is a very frightening place David.

How could you even be arsed making all of that up?

 

[Huyton Layne]

He's wank when he's in charge of everything at a club. His training is garbage and his signings are generally poor. He's a good fit for international footy because other people train his players and he just sees them for a week every few months, plus he can't sign Arouna Kone for Belgium and has their golden generation.

So it's a no from me.

 

[Toffeelover]

Again: I dont put Martinez up there and not to be shot at. I just know that there;s a lot more to the story than the mickey mouse version of Orwellian history many fans put forward on Martinez's period here.

What you say Dave, yes could be stuff behind it, just like showing Koeman the door. Add to that the BFS saga! There is always stuff which happen does not leak out

 

[davek]

the imaginary world in which you reside is a very frightening place David.

How could you even be arsed making all of that up?

It's not made up though. It's right on the money. It's the only reason why Martinez exercises people: the vision of the future they bought into post-RM was a a fantasy they fell for for. They were had off by a conman carpetbagger and they cant bring themselves to admit it.

 

[Saint Domingo]

You should be thanking Martinez, SD, for getting one final fantastic year out of that team.

Distin and Howard had arguably their best season under Martinez. Unfortunately they both became a car crash early the season after. Remember Distin vs Swansea in the cup? Horrible to watch.

And pull the other one with these players in their 'prime':

Fellaini - agreed but 27m was good money for someone who needs a very specific game plan to work. We replaced with Barkley in that position and finished 5th.
Jelavic - absolutely crap
Baines - agreed and he did well under Martinez
Coleman - agreed - like Baines had arguably his best season under Martinez
Jagielka - agreed and he did well under Martinez
Naismith - a very limited player, you and I know it. Barely played under Moyes and Martinez turns him into a hat-trick hero vs Chelsea
Gibson - unarguably a sicknote. Was publically said to be the Pivot-in-waiting in pre-season of Martinez season 1. We brought an actual midfielder in McCarthy and Barry and see what happened.
Heitinga - was POTY under Moyes in his penultimate season, then immediately displaced the season after with Distin and Jagielka back from injury. So you're blaming Martinez when your boy Moyes didn't even play him.
Oviedo - barely played under Moyes, Martinez turns him into a Baines heir-apparent.

You don't like Bobby and that's absolutely fine - your decision. But to suggest he didn't do well with the limited resources he had is madness.

How I’ve missed this, take me back, better times.

 

[Groucho]

Still no

RM has done very well wherever he's been in football

I would disagree. He was a no mark player and took Wigan down as manager. Their FA cup for me is totally negated by that fact.

If we’d have won the cup in 95 but gone down as well, you would not think that Joe Royle had done well.

He’s done ok with Belgium and Swansea but that’s about it.

 

[MikeH72]

3-1 up against City in the 2nd leg of league cup only to lose 3-5 was it?

Never forget.

He brought Kone on for Deulofeu at 1-1 with half an hour left and we didn’t see the ball again for the rest of the game.

 

[mkrudden]

How I’ve missed this, take me back, better times.

The best my mate

 

[davek]

Still no


I would disagree. He was a no mark player and took Wigan down as manager. Their FA cup for me is totally negated by that fact.

If we’d have won the cup in 95 but gone down as well, you would not think that Joe Royle had done well.

He’s done ok with Belgium and Swansea but that’s about it.

The Wigan FA Cup was like Kenya winning the World Cup. So what they got relegated? The comparison with us and Royle winning the cup and then being relegated is ill-fitting. Everton are an established top flight club; Wigan weren't.

He did more than ok with Swansea. And his time at Belgium has been a magnificent success story. 128 goals in 42 games - 3 games lost.

 

[Groucho]

The Wigan FA Cup was like Kenya winning the World Cup. So what they got relegated? The comparison with us and Royle winning the cup and then being relegated is ill-fitting. Everton are an established top flight club; Wigan weren't.

He did more than ok with Swansea. And his time at Belgium has been a magnificent success story. 128 goals in 42 games - 3 games lost.

If that was us it’d be catastrophic.

 

[davek]

If that was us it’d be catastrophic.

Which it never ever was under Martinez and never ever would have happened. Moyes took us to the cliff edge, not martinez.

 

[MikeH72]

The Wigan FA Cup was like Kenya winning the World Cup. So what they got relegated? The comparison with us and Royle winning the cup and then being relegated is ill-fitting. Everton are an established top flight club; Wigan weren't.

He did more than ok with Swansea. And his time at Belgium has been a magnificent success story. 128 goals in 42 games - 3 games lost.

They were Dave.