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Your stance on Martinez AND what would change it?

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My stance is that Martinez is brilliant with words. He can attract big time players through word of mouth, and his connections. We never would have players like Lukaku, Delefeou without him and I can't thank him enough for bringing these players in.

He has us playing some boss attacking football, built around possession and confidence on the ball. All of our players are now very competent when on the ball, and even under pressured situations, however the way we play does just force a problem every now and then. Even players like Lukaku have seen major improvements during there time with Bobby.

He does give youth a chance to be fair to him, and mistakes aren't scrutinised so harshly thus meaning there confidence won't be destroyed like when Moyes tried it.

This is where problems begin, our once notoriously defiant defence is now a marshmallow. Literally any league 2 team or lower could play 1 pass and cut us open for a 1v1 whilst we spend the entire game putting in great crosses only for nobody to gamble on them.

We often don't start playing footy until we are 1-0 down, or shoot ourselves in the foot when actually winning a game by completely dropping off and ALLOWING them to attack us thinking that we can defend anything at all. This happens every game and can only be down to the manager. Until Besic came in, we all watched plenty of Everton games in a row where our team barely even put a tackle in - players barely even pressing other players.

He needs to find a balance, and quickly, before people completely lose the will to support him. Many are on the decline, myself one of them, and I hope he can just turn it around because we all know he isn't getting sacked anytime soon and he HAS actually built us a brilliant squad so far.

This being said, if he doesn't sort the defence out from now until the end of the season then well it's a must-go from me. We've conceded a ridiculous amount of goals and literally need to score 3-4 goals atm just to try and win a game because we know we will concede, and he is refusing to chance his philosophy much like at Wigan. SORT IT OUT BOBBY.
 
At the end of the day, his biggest strength has become his downfall. He inspired hope, and talked about restoring Everton as a top side who could challenge for the league.

He raised expectations at his own peril.

That said there has been a vocal 'never wanted him' contingent of our fanbase who were waiting and watching after the first season.

The massive boos he received in his second season was clearly the same abhorrent folks who were calling for his head after the first three draws in season one.

Moyes started off so many seasons so poorly, yet I never remember boos ringing out like they did last season.

Ultimately the toxic atmosphere of Goodison built on failed hopes built up by Martinez has been his downfall. That toxic atmosphere is clearly affecting the performances on the pitch by a largely young side. Folks were very happy knowing we'd never win anything but at least we were the best of the rest with Moyes. He never had the courage to put expectations on himself.

Keep us up...plucky little Everton punching above their weight. Clearly a more popular route as expectations are kept at a minimum.

Yes that's what it's come down to now under Roberto. He has not raised expectations at all - he has lowered them. Hopefully we can at least stay in mid table as he has dampened expectations so much that we have little chance of getting a respectable league position as we did under his predecessor.

If his team could play as good a game as the one he talks we'd be in a CL spot. It's all the fans' fault of course.
 
Okay mate, decent thread idea I think.

Trying to stay away from discussion re. Martinez, i think you all know my views...

I'm behind him.

I don't agree with all of his decisions (Howard etc., certain tactics), but I also see the logic in a lot of the decisions as well (e.g. bringing on Kone the other night in an attempt to help Rom out).

I think that, taking into our account of goals scored in the last 18 months (127 from 80 games in all comps) as well as goals conceded (109 in 80), it is obvious that, fundamentally, he needs to change the defensive structure somehow.

I think that he has shown signs of that since the turn of the year.

I cite:

- Spurs at home - a solid defensive display, that at first negated our attacking. We mixed it up in the second half and in the end were unlucky not to get a winner. Fair result.

- City at home (lg.cup) - great display all-round. No complaints.

- Dag & Red: irrelevant, really.

- City away (lg): Good defensive showing. Got away with the penalty call but equaled up for the one against Stoke that cost us the point at least. Only team to keep a clean sheet vs City since Jan.15.

- Chelsea: Good 1st half, great start to the second. Had a bad five minutes and conceded twice, which is worrying, but away from home against the champions also should be taken into account. Re-grouped, scored and attempted to kill the game. Would have won it if the officials had done their job.

- Swansea: Really bad first half, worst we've been all season. Came out renewed in the second half, but couldn't get the goals. Besic going off injured hurt us.

- City: Went with a game plan and executed it well for 70 minutes. Another very bad piece of officiating and then the inevitable collapse came/City had the quality to take advantage. Should not be used against RM. Best side in the country on paper and they showed it.

So, I believe in those five matches that counted so far this month, we've shown signs of improving in defence. Little signs, but signs none-the-less. The trick is quite clearly being able to combine a solid defence with an attacking display we know we are capable of.

For example, we have done this on a few occasions and have waltzed to victories looking unplayable at times.

- Sotton away, Chelsea at home, Boro away in the quarter final, to an extent Villa and Sunderland.

I believe that the attacking displays (40 goals scored already in PL, compared to 48 total last season in PL) show definite improvement. Our defence still has a lot of catching up to do. We have conceded 45 in total in all comps this term, and scored 53.

For all the complaints about not winning games, we have also only lost 6 in total in all comps this term. We have won 11. Not good enough, no, but then again the results have not always reflected the performances, due to a combination of the points I have listed above.

In conclusion, I believe Martinez is currently the right man for the job. This is based on the above, what we have seen he can do in his first season in charge, and that it is the middle of the season. We are also playing the best football I have ever seen Everton play, and I believe it is some of the most exciting attacking football currently being played in the supposed best league in the world.

I am not steadfast in my support. I will criticise when I believe he/the team deserves it - his refusal to not play Joel in the league being a prime example. Coming into this season I expected a top 6/7 finish. I would have been happy with a cup and top 10. Being realistic, I still think both are achievable.

My opinion will change if we start to lose games consecutively in the league heading into the key part of the season. We have 45 points available. I'd like to think if it clicks we can pick up around 30 and get well over 50 points. If we do not reach this mark, and we have not won the cup, then summer would be the time to re-assess and see where we are at, and whether it would be better to go for a manager who has the know-how and style to take this team where it can get to, even if some of the players do leave. However, at this point in the season, I do not believe any of those managers are available/would leave their current job to take over us.

At the end of the day, we all want Everton to achieve. And i'm not looking for any debate on Martinez, as that is for the other thread. The above is my opinion.

EDIT: I also want to add, that I believe our results will improve a lot when McCarthy returns to full fitness, with Besic ideally able to slot in as well.

@GrandOldTeam put a few pictures and that and whack it on the front page. I dont necessarily agree with it but its a very well written defence of Martinez; something we could all use given that he WILL be here for the forseeable future
 
He needs to show that he has learned a lesson, unfortunately he shows no signs of doing that. Yes, we have dropped points due to awful refereeing but the majority of the points we have dropped is because of Martinez' tactics. I have lost my patience with him.

Favre in, ASAP
 
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Wasn't too impressed that we chose him in the first place, proved me wrong in his first season, proved me right in his second. I said I would give him a third season before deciding whether the first or second was his level. At the moment, it doesn't look good, at least in terms of results. But we are playing some great football and he has brought in some very exciting players (but to fair, he has signed some dross too).
I really want him to succeed, because if he can keep us playing this way and get results, then that is the perfect scenario, but I'm not convinced he is going to manage it.
 

Today is the first day I finally brought myself to read anything Everton since that dark midweek day.

I read RM's statement post match and it got me thinking. Yes our defending is poor, but isn't that what happens when our boss goes from a total defence minded coach to an attacking? You can't expect the players to react any other way than "forgetting" what they knew under Moyes.

He also had another good point, we all are a little guilty of looking up at all the money seeing millions of dollars dropped to get some of the best players and buy a team. Here at Everton we have to make one.

So many players have gotten so much better, since even the start of the season! Remember Lukaku at the start of the season couldn't even control a ball when it came to him? I am trying to put a positive spin on it all and play a little devils advocate to the "martinez out" chants. But this is a building process for Martinez, the players, and hell the fans too.

Hes right, without the money you can't create a team overnight. Lets give him the one thing no manager ever gets, time. We aren't going anywhere and neither is Everton, so why not give it a shot?
 
Today is the first day I finally brought myself to read anything Everton since that dark midweek day.

I read RM's statement post match and it got me thinking. Yes our defending is poor, but isn't that what happens when our boss goes from a total defence minded coach to an attacking? You can't expect the players to react any other way than "forgetting" what they knew under Moyes.

He also had another good point, we all are a little guilty of looking up at all the money seeing millions of dollars dropped to get some of the best players and buy a team. Here at Everton we have to make one.

So many players have gotten so much better, since even the start of the season! Remember Lukaku at the start of the season couldn't even control a ball when it came to him? I am trying to put a positive spin on it all and play a little devils advocate to the "martinez out" chants. But this is a building process for Martinez, the players, and hell the fans too.

Hes right, without the money you can't create a team overnight. Lets give him the one thing no manager ever gets, time. We aren't going anywhere and neither is Everton, so why not give it a shot?

Because modern football doesn't work like that. Time is a stupid argument because players are largely pricks who are off at first opportunity and have pathetic attitudes and commitment. Fans also pump crazy money into following their club so understandably want success in the present. It's an entirely different environment.

We have our best side in a long time. If we don't make most of them right now they will be off. That is the sad reality.
 
My stance:

He appears completely oblivious to the fact that after a season and a half of mistakes and struggle, the players he currently has at his disposal are not suited to playing the style he wishes to play.

He's made it quite clear he's not going to change his style or thinking or philosophies.

We continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over again.

Based on all of that, I would reluctantly sack him immediately and bring in someone else.

Only a deluded fool keeps doing the same things over and over and over again, expecting it to suddenly 'click' or for results to be different.
 
I still having unwavering support of the manager, and I dislike the fact that a lot of our fan base are calling for his head.

Sacking a manager during a stable, albeit frustrating, period in a football clubs season almost never works. Look at the likes of Newcastle, Sunderland and West Brom. Chairmen that are all too happy to get rid at times where the manager really needs support.

Our fanbase is becoming exceedingly toxic, and I really dislike it. At the end of the day, it's not as if Martinez doesn't want to do well with us. His reputation is on the line here, and I'm certain that he's doing everything in his power to turn things around.

A bit of perspective wouldn't go a miss either.
  • We got into the semi-finals of the League Cup, losing mainly down to two refereeing mistakes.
  • We're a few points off a european place, with a fair bit of the season left to run.
  • We have the best young squad we've had in years.
  • Injuries are beginning to cool a bit, Jagielka returning will improve things at the back.
Have some belief.
 
I was suprised that Everton appointed a man whose team were relegated the previous season

I was very pleasantly suprised at how well the team performed in his first season.

Since then the team has been dreadful.

It beggars belief that the team with talented players cannot defend but mirrors his previous team at Wigan.

He seems unable or unwilling to learn and coach basic defensive play.

This squad of players should be in the top 6 and pushing for a Champions League position.

Unless we achieve that this season ( we won't ) I want to seehim replaced at the end of the season.
 

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