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2015 post UK election discussion

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Most conservatives have had that internal conversation with themselves an arrived at that conclusion.

Well no, because firstly, most Conservative voters are not small 'c' conservatives. They are just voters who chose to vote a certain way.

Secondly, they chose to vote that way for all manner of reasons. I doubt many had much of an internal conversation. Perhaps fear of Scotland having a say in the country we begged them to remain a part of, as portrayed by the Tory party? Lack of trust in the economics of the Labour Party?

But definitely not some self-rightcheous internal debate that is exclusive to Tory voters.
 
Well, I've been well negged, but it's not exactly like I didn't expect it.
Think about this.

The Left are asking "how the flub did this result happen? Are the so-called shy Tories such selfish cowards that they won't even publically say who they vote for?"

No. It's not that at all.

A defining characteristic of "conservatism" is a having a sense of self-confidence about yourself, because you've examined both sides of the arguments. We don't feel the need to shout our opinion from every rooftop and seek affirmation from other like-minded individuals; we're completely at peace with our decisions.

They say that if you don't vote Labour at 20 then you don't have a heart, but if you still vote that way at 30 then you don't have a brain. Many more people turn from Labour to Tory over their lifetime than the other way. WHY IS THAT? Is it that people become less generous as they age? Or, perhaps, it is because people, at some point, are forced to grow up and face the reality of the way the world works. Socialist ideals sounds nice and fluffy in practice but in reality when you follow through their implications from first principles you arrive at some horrific conclusions.

Most conservatives have had that internal conversation with themselves an arrived at that conclusion.

The standard conversational line of the Left when they meet an "everyday" conservative (and there are many of them in the country) is often something like... "Tories are meant to be nasty... you're too nice to be a Tory..."

Well, our standard reply should be "You're too smart to be a socialist."

That's all well and good but what was remotely socialist about Labour's manifesto? They committed themselves to 5 years of austerity...

Horrific conclusions in my mind are families living in poverty and people working for a wage that can't even support a reasonable standard of living. These aren't the consequence of fluffy socialist ideals.
 
Plymouth Tory MP's office is covered in poo
poo2.jpg

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Ply...-covered-poo/story-26473904-detail/story.html

Is it a Banksy........
 
One of the unfortunate consequences of the re-election of the Tories is that many people who may have been struggling with their inner debate of poverty for more vs other issues, now feel that poverty for more option is more than acceptable. So much so that they become idiots about it and advocate it when they wouldn't have dared to before. The more it goes on , the more socially acceptable it becomes. It's a vicious downwards spiral. I'm not saying all Tories are like this, just as I don't think all UKIPers are racists.
 

That's all well and good but what was remotely socialist about Labour's manifesto? They committed themselves to 5 years of austerity...

Horrific conclusions in my mind are families living in poverty and people working for a wage that can't even support a reasonable standard of living. These aren't the consequence of fluffy socialist ideals.
Or the consequences of right wing ideology. They're the consequences of globalization.

Or perhaps you want to limit the things you buy to made in Britain.

Whatever you gain in job salary and security would more than likely be lost when buying things.

I wish people would accept that. Take away the debt both personal and government and I wonder how healthy the economy would have looked under Labour.
 
That's all well and good but what was remotely socialist about Labour's manifesto? They committed themselves to 5 years of austerity...

Horrific conclusions in my mind are families living in poverty and people working for a wage that can't even support a reasonable standard of living. These aren't the consequence of fluffy socialist ideals.

This. Christ a bit of spending on benefits for the needy isn't going to turn us into Stalinist Russia ffs.
 
Do you mean oil ? Or maybe the Financial Srvices companies that said they would be off if independence came ? Or perhaps fishing and crofting.....

Hmm. We need to disagree here.
The SNP want independence to get their hands on the oil. Most would go to the friends of the political elite and the rest would go to public services and lowering taxes which would last long enough so no one would be aware of the robbery taking place. Once the oil runs out Scotland would be a basket case.
 

That's all well and good but what was remotely socialist about Labour's manifesto? They committed themselves to 5 years of austerity...

Horrific conclusions in my mind are families living in poverty and people working for a wage that can't even support a reasonable standard of living. These aren't the consequence of fluffy socialist ideals.

if you don't think there's something wrong with a 50% income tax rate, no matter how "few" people it affects, then I guess I could come to the same blinkered conclusion as you.

Why stop at 50%? If more tax is better, then why not tax them 60%, 70%? where you do draw the line? Ideologically insane to tax the wealth creators, yet this is how the Left think.
 
Reform call as Tories win majority with 37% of vote

Campaign groups have called for the United Kingdom’s electoral system to be reformed, after David Cameron’s Conservative Party secured a majority despite taking just 37% of the vote.

UKIP and the Green Party attracted a combined five million votes, but won just two seats between them.

The results of Thursday's election highlighted the anomalies of a system that allocates seats not according to the parties' total number of nationwide votes but on the basis of 650 local 'first-past-the-post' contests.

Nationwide, UKIP took 12.6% and the Greens 3.8% of the vote, but their support was too thinly spread to win more than one member of parliament each.

Conservative leader Cameron earned a second term as prime minister with 11.3 million votes and 331 of the 650 seats.

But only one of those seats was in Scotland, where the pro-independence Scottish National Party won 1.45 million votes, half of those cast, and took 56 of the 59 Scottish seats.

By this morning, over 100,000 people had signed a petition launched by the Electoral Reform Society and Unlock Democracy calling for change.

It states: "The 2015 general election has shown once and for all that our voting system is broken beyond repair." It urges politicians of all parties to embrace reform.

Will Brett, head of campaigns for the Electoral Reform Society, said: "The fact that over five million people between them have voted UKIP and Green, and they have two MPs, strikes us as utterly absurd and a tragic denial of people's democratic wishes."

The group advocates a switch to proportional representation.

Complaints about the fairness of the first-past-the-post system are not new.

For decades it was the centrist Liberals, and their successors the Liberal Democrats (Lib Dems), who led the calls for change.

As part of the price for supporting Mr Cameron in a coalition after the previous 2010 election, the Lib Dems were granted a referendum in 2011 on adopting a modified version of first-past-the-post (FPP), in which voters would rank candidates in order.

The change was rejected, on a low voter turnout.

Advocates of FPP say it is a tried and tested system that for the most part has delivered clear election outcomes and stable governments.

But opponents say the Scottish question, the fragmentation of the old two-party-dominated political structure and the emergence of movements such as UKIP and the Greens have all bolstered the case for reform.

Under a system of PR, Cameron's Conservatives would still have been the biggest party in the House of Commons after Thursday's election but would have needed to rely on UKIP, with more than 80 seats, to scrape a majority.

In Scotland, the SNP would be reduced to half the seats, with the others split between Labour, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats.

In that more balanced landscape, the political chasm between England and Scotland would be greatly narrowed.

Even before the election, that point was forcefully argued by Vernon Bogdanor, a constitutional expert who was Cameron's politics tutor at Oxford University.

"Distorted representation makes the UK appear more divided than in fact it is," he wrote in Prospect magazine in February.

"Proportional representation, therefore, would alter the dynamics of the conflict between England and Scotland and make it far more manageable."

No one expects Cameron to change the system that has swept him back to power.

But in the long-term, some argue, there are compelling reasons to re-draw electoral rules that divide much of Britain into fortresses held for decades by one party or the other.

That means that millions of people are effectively disenfranchised and elections are decided in a relatively small number of close-fought marginal seats.

While the current system gives Mr Cameron a mandate for a majority government, "it's not such a strong mandate that he can ignore the rest of the country," Mr Brett said.

"It's going to be hard to ignore electoral reform indefinitely."

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0510/700081-uk-election/

I have no time for those now advocating reform, those on the right had their chance in 2011 and shot it down. Now because UKIP did so well they want it reformed. As they say in South Africa, FOCK THAT.
 
Exactly, and the richer the country becomes the more that can be spent..........
Exactly which is why ultimately a Tory government would be good. If you spend 10% of 100m on public services its still more than 15% of 50m. It just needs time but its going the right way.
 
Intolerance of people who hold different opinions to yourself is the definition of socialism.

Unless you can logically explain why Labour lost and the Tories won beyond "greed triumphed over compassion yet again" then there is no hope for an improvement in your situation.

With that I take my leave of this thread and go "quietly, confidently about my own business."
A logical explanation is that many people believed too much of the spin coming from the Tory media.
 
And from that you come to the conclusion that the poor deserve to be poor so screw them anyway.

Your argument is tosh. Conservatism really isn't about self confidence, it's about protectionism.
The meaning is in the name its to conserve what you have ok if you are filthy rich, on the other hand if the 30 billion of cuts were to come from Labour - how could they do it without cuts and hardship we have no big industry to become a major power again , and anything that we create of making profit we sell it off - this lot would sell their own grannies to make a buck - Austerity riot last night in London 18 arrested - its started already!
On such a small majority let the infighting on the EU commence and with Boris there - DC will be vulnerable to his right wing!
 

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