6 + 2 Point Deductions

[RD2910]

That’s exactly what the argument was (although not specific for Pickford).
I think what’s been lost a bit, is that the P&S target is not £105m it’s zero. The £105m is to allow flexibility in that, and wasn’t intended to be used as a target.
Like nearly all clubs, we used the £105m as a target instead. (When I say we, I mean that utter fool Moshiri)

How fair all of this is is a totally different issue of course, but that’s how the PL see it.

Zero's cloud cuckoo land in premier league football though, surely?

 

[pfim]

This deduction is actually good for those running the club, the fans are now turning on the Premier League and no longer focusing on those running the club. We're arguing injustice over things that happened years ago, while forgetting that the financial situation has (clearly) deteriorated to an apocalyptic scenario now. The focus is completely off all that, and we'll likely stay up anyway so its not like we've been forcibly relegated at this point

Of course last season's accounts are going to trigger a new investigation. When we signed Onana etc, we all were asking what we were playing at knowing there was an investigation and that we couldn't afford it. Despite all evidence otherwise, we assumed they knew what they were doing. Add in Lampard's compensation etc and its not going to look good. I think it'll be more than £20m over

Delaying Beto to the next financial year, good business if we stay up but an immediate £30m down if we've gone down and are playing by the EFL's rules. They're living in a permanent casino, but gambling on fast dwindling credit

Deservedly so for the moment, the punishment is ridiculous.

Plenty of time to continue to blame Moshiri for this mess, however.

 

[Jacko93]

Yes, one thing at a time and all that, but I'd say that the issue extends beyond the current punishment, in that the true legacy could last much longer. Especially if clubs can bring actions against us and/or if the club exceeds PSR again next year due to high interest payments on existing loans and the cost of completion of stadium.

I simply dont get how clubs can bring anything against us. Even in the commissions report they state that sporting advantage cannot be quantified from what we have done, but there MUST have been something because of another ruling that was passed in a previous case. Any case that comes against us would need to present absolute proof beyond all doubt the level of sporting advantage we gained and how it affected them specifically. The fact that, as far as I can see, the infractions have been less on players purchases, but on accounting for the stadium. Also, if Player Y was indeed Keane, as has been mooted elsewhere, then we can likely show more cases where he has lost us points, then gained them.

 

[davek]

The numbers are the numbers.

Having said that, if the club broke the threshold again in 2023, you'd have to start to question their ability to function as human beings on a day-to-day basis. Forget accounting, just the ability to walk, speak, use opposable thumbs.

Yes, they are. And the numbers are the numbers elsewhere too.

The optics are the optics also.

 

[Moderatelywarmwater]

Zero's cloud cuckoo land in premier league football though, surely?

Not for all clubs. Some routinely break even. The PL’s stated intention was that this should be the case for all clubs (whether this was their real intention is a different question)

 

[RD2910]

Not for all clubs. Some routinely break even. The PL’s stated intention was that this should be the case for all clubs (whether this was their real intention is a different question)

Which clubs break even, out of interest?

 

[Simon Buttle]

This deduction is actually good for those running the club, the fans are now turning on the Premier League and no longer focusing on those running the club. We're arguing injustice over things that happened years ago, while forgetting that the financial situation has (clearly) deteriorated to an apocalyptic scenario now. The focus is completely off all that, and we'll likely stay up anyway so its not like we've been forcibly relegated at this point

Of course last season's accounts are going to trigger a new investigation. When we signed Onana etc, we all were asking what we were playing at knowing there was an investigation and that we couldn't afford it. Despite all evidence otherwise, we assumed they knew what they were doing. Add in Lampard's compensation etc and its not going to look good. I think it'll be more than £20m over

Delaying Beto to the next financial year, good business if we stay up but an immediate £30m down if we've gone down and are playing by the EFL's rules. They're living in a permanent casino, but gambling on fast dwindling credit

I'm a bit more confident as whilst I'm not his biggest fan, Thelwell has previous experience of cost cutting from his time at NY Red Bulls. He went there to clean up their wage bill and get the outgoings down so we can only hope he has done the same here.

 

[Moderatelywarmwater]

Which clubs break even, out of interest?

difficult to tell right now because of Covid loses, so you’d have to go back to 2019. Probably want to look at EDBITA as the best measure. Swiss ramble is the place to look

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

And the Tories haven't exactly come out smelling of roses, have they? Yes, the Saudis aren't a great regime either, but I'm not sure they're quite the same threat to world peace that Putin is, so the prospect of sanctions are probably far less for the foreseeable.

I imagine you're delighted at this outcome because it gives you another chance to say I told you so about the stadium.

 

[bernie inn]

None of them teams are in the Premier League though. We can't use that as a defence.

What punishment should we have got?

We should have been fined for a financial discrepancy like everybody else is

 

[davek]

Not at all. It's a rolling calculation based on 3 yr windows, if you re-offend, further penalties are more than possible, and perhaps one of the reasons we still haven't published our last accounts, which despite our relative prudence in recent windows, is not predicted to look particularly great considering we are taking payday loans just to operate.

The rest is whataboutery or on-going cases that are entirely separate issues. The whole of this a PR disaster and they are being increasingly scrutinised, that doesn't avert/negate our issues.

First of all, there's a lot of assumptions there that the club have re-offended. 'Predictions' and 'possibilities'. That's where we're at with the prospect of another charge.

Secondly, the first investigation bafflingly didn't allow mitigating factors to have weight and there was an undoubted arbitrariness to the punishment handed down. So this is not an exact science. The process - as we've seen - has been highly subjective in the way our case has been handled, hence the appeal. So there's a lot of scope for the PL to afford itself wriggle room...if....IF....Everton have fallen foul again.

 

[Gilbert..]

Not for all clubs. Some routinely break even. The PL’s stated intention was that this should be the case for all clubs (whether this was their real intention is a different question)

The accumulate losses of premier league clubs in 2022 was £590m
Those breaking even most have been few are far between.

 

[riddick]

Feel like this has been running through my head the last couple days. Its like the Premier League thought it would just blow over. Yeah....we might be a beat down fanbase but we galvanize pretty fn well when faced with a factual injustice...

 

[Yarrgh]

Personally I’m not a fan of howling at the moon over any perceived injustice real or imagined.
I also dislike adopting woe is us , victim status.
Act like a victim and you will become a victim .
Let’s us help fight to overcome this setback where it matters, on the pitch.
As supporters I hope we rise above this and support the team to safety and beyond.
Take this massive setback on the chin and come back fighting, not throwing tantrums.
Let’s concentrate on winning not whining.

I expect us to fight against this at all levels and by every avenue. On the field, in the media, via appeal, through the courts... in every way possible.

That's not being a victim. Accepting it meekly should not be an option.

 

[Tom Hughes]

First of all, there's a lot of assumptions there that the club have re-offended. 'Predictions' and 'possibilities'. That's where we're at with the prospect of another charge.

Secondly, the first investigation bafflingly didn't allow mitigating factors to have weight and there was an undoubted arbitrariness to the punishment handed down. So this is not an exact science. The process - as we've seen - has been highly subjective in the way our case has been handled, hence the appeal. So there's a lot of scope for the PL to afford itself wriggle room...if....IF Everton have fallen foul again.

I'm not presuming anything. I'm merely saying that we know the figures for the past 2 yrs and there are estimates for this year. Debt restructuring or other financial/transfer activity may yet move that figure...... so given those and our ongoing situation, there IS a possibility of a further infringement. I haven't said it's a certainty.

As regards mitigation. Our actual losses were approx £380m. These were whittled down to £124m by applying mitigation factors including our claim for Covid losses which were comfortably the highest in the league.