6 + 2 Point Deductions

[degsy]

The delay isn't about Everton's case, it's about the implications for the league.

They didn't think the 10 points deduction through, have seen the stink it created, the whataboutery can of worms it's opened - and now have no idea how to handle what it means as a precedent going forward.

A one-off points deduction for one team would be one thing. But there is a very real danger that multiple clubs are going to be sanctioned in any given season.

They are blowing up sporting integrity - exactly the thing PSR rules were allegedly setup to protect - and I think this realisation is starting to hit home with them.

I think the Premier League has absolutely no idea how to handle the car crash they've set in motion.

I think you've more or less nailed the whole situation - they've painted themselves in a corner

 

[RD2910]

And we’re being cheated because they’ve decided to bundle two of the years together as one due to the pandemic. So we’re being punished twice for the same breach, over a 4 year period rather than 3. 2019/20 should drop off this year.

The average of the losses for 2019/20 and 2020/21 is lower than the loss for 2020/21.

 

[pfim]

Difficult to see how we wouldn’t of breached again as we carry two years of the three through from the first breach and also required cash in a monthly basis for cash flow.

I think others are in similar situation. Not just Forest.

There just needs to be a 20mil gap bridged between year 1 of the prior period (which was awful) and 22/23.

If we couldn’t fix that before 6/30/23, the club deserves another breach just for sheer stupidity

 

[Toffeeslam]

What does this mean and how would it work?

Reject our appeal i would of thought

 

[MikeH72]

The average of the losses for 2019/20 and 2020/21 is lower than the loss for 2020/21.

This doesn’t make sense to me, it suggests that we lost more in 2020/21 than we did in 2019/20. That just can’t be possible. Where have you got these figures?

 

[MikeH72]

Reject our appeal i would of thought

Yeah, it doesn’t work like that. If they could just “reject our appeal” with no legal basis whatsoever then it wouldn’t even be going to an appeal.

 

[WestStandLower]

Here’s the Martin Samuel article from the Times…he has no concrete evidence that we will be charged on Monday.

This is how convinced the Premier League is of the worth of its profit and sustainability rules. From August 2024, they change. Quite how isn’t yet in the public domain, but the expectation is for a system more aligned with the Uefa model, focusing on wages to turnover. So, on Monday, the likelihood is that Everton and Nottingham Forest will be charged and, if found guilty, potentially relegated, for falling foul of a system rated so highly by its enforcers that it has eight months to live. There’s governance for you. Watch out, the Post Office.

Changing profit and sustainability rules (PSR) is a tacit admission that, in the present state, they are no longer fit for purpose. This would figure as the system hasn’t really evolved since 2014 and does not take into account changes in the football landscape. Yet, while admitting that the rules need updating, the punishments have become draconian if Everton’s ten-point deduction is now the benchmark. This will come to its head when Manchester City eventually answer 115 charges for breaching rules in a system that has already been discarded. It could be that Everton may even pass PSR, as they will exist in August, having suffered relegation in May under the redundant system.


And rules are rules, as we often hear. Clubs break rules as they were, not as they will be at a future date. But punishment shouldn’t be punishment, not on such a ruinous scale, when so much is in flux. There should be proportionate tempering that takes this into account. Instead, the Premier League insists on donning the black cap. Peter Allen and Gwynne Evans were the last men sentenced to death in Britain, and were hanged on August 13, 1964. Capital punishment was later suspended and finally abolished in 1969. The Premier League, meanwhile, is intent on hurrying through capital sentences, in the weeks before capital punishment is done. And is the sentence fitting the crime? In the present five-year period — from summer 2019 to summer 2024 — Everton are 18th in the Premier League net spend table, with only Luton Town and Brighton & Hove Albion below them. It is hard, then, to view this club as the epitome of all that is wrong in football.
The argument that financial controls are what makes English football competitive also foundered in a week when this season’s success story, Aston Villa, and the bright sparks of last year, Newcastle United, both admitted, through the Villa head coach, Unai Emery, and the Newcastle chief executive, Darren Eales, that they would have to sell good players to comply with PSR rules. These are two great clubs finally in a position to compete after so long in the wilderness. And forcing them to shed talent to meet regulations that are being consigned to the bin before the end of that same transfer window is of benefit to the English game?
So Everton and Forest are lawyering up. Everton have engaged Laurence Rabinowitz KC to fight their case, Forest have enlisted Nick De Marco KC. They’ll be condemned for doing that, too, if City’s experience is anything to go by. Many feel it unfair that City’s lawyers have slowed the progress of the 115 charges to a crawl, yet it’s a strange world in which a club can’t use lawyers to fight a legal process.
Those who have watched Mr Bates vs The Post Office will know what can happen on entering court armed with little beyond a feeling of righteousness. The clubs may not win but, with the Premier League coming over all masterful, they would be mad not to meet a legal challenge head-on.

If this were a gold-standard system, if it took into account the way the game has evolved through ownership, transfer fees, compound interest, inflation and a hundred other tiny factors, the punishments would be more palatable.

As it is, a soon-to-be discarded system could be about to do immeasurable, potentially irreparable, harm. Profit and sustainability? As Premier League entities, Everton and Forest may yet be regulated to death.

I actually have a lot of time for Martin Samuel but this isn’t one of his better articles.

The PL have little to no option but to abandon the current P&S model and adopt the new UEFA model which yes factors on wages to a % of income but wages are added to amortisation and agent costs when arriving at the squad costs which is the number that will be measured.

Samuels talks about nett transfer spend but as has been pointed out on here that number other than something that winds people up . Amortisation is a killer when it comes to getting a handle on the player trading numbers but and a big but lend a player out on loan and it impacts both the P&S and FFP amortisation number significantly.

 

[Jeff Jones]

Id be happy with a significant decrease in the points deduction on the grounds that the original deduction was disproportionate. However, it would be even better if this hotshot lawyer could successfully argue that the entire process should be considered invalid or unlawful due to its incompatibility with the new ESL ruling.

I hope he knows what this new ESL ruling is, because I don't.

 

[Walken]

Despite his transfer explosion of ITK madness in the early mosh days, the esk tends to be right about the financial stuff.

Fingers crossed.

 

[RD2910]

This doesn’t make sense to me, it suggests that we lost more in 2020/21 than we did in 2019/20. That just can’t be possible. Where have you got these figures?

The statutory loss was higher in 2019/20, but the vast majority of the £80m we claimed for Covid, which we know wasn't considered for PSR, was from 2019/20, meaning the underlying loss was £34m less in 2019/20 than in 2020/21.

Obviously I don't know what the expenditure on other things that weren't relevant for PSR was in each year, but it is very likely that the use of the average still benefits Everton.

 

[matty1878]

Nobody show it to @matty1878

what?

 

[matty1878]

Despite his transfer explosion of ITK madness in the early mosh days, the esk tends to be right about the financial stuff.

Fingers crossed.

what mate?

 

[ForeverEverton]

The Scumbag 6 wanted to break away and got a £3m fine, doing that now carries a 30 point deduction...

No penalties were in place before the PL sent us to the commission, the table I`ve seen our fans stating i.e 6 points for breach and 1 point per subsequent £5m should not be used. That was made up by the PL in August AFTER we were referred. It certainly was NOT passed by Premier League clubs so should not stand.

I think, and hopefully the PL will have to give us a minimal punishment with the league introducing a structured punishment for clubs going forward as in the case with the ESL Scumbags.

This tweets below are regarding the ESL ruling, but will no doubt impact our appeal, the Premier League have to follow FA, UEFA and FIFA rules which the ESL case states. :-





View attachment 240247

@Jeff Jones, I posted the obove a little while ago, it is all based on transparency and regulation abuse.

 

[Victus]

what?

Potentially more points deducted tomorrow.

 

[matty1878]

Potentially more points deducted tomorrow.

surely not surely not.