2023/24 Amadou Onana

[Zatara]

1 Chance a game. What does he do for the other 89 mins and 50 seconds

Thats not what it says. It says "big chances".

Big Chances. A situation where a player should reasonably be expected to score, usually in a one on one scenario or from very close range when the ball has a clear path to goal and there is low to moderate pressure on the shooter.

 

[Cameron Manning]

Haters gonna hate this

Not haters, realists who use their eyes instead of stats.

I don't know about Gana covering for him specifically, but he is not involved in the game for the entire match. However in those sporadic moments that he does get involved, he has done a lot better than what he did last season. I suppose it is subjective because I suspect his statistics may be worse than last season and that is precisely the point. As a fanbase, we can't give Iwobi stick for only having good statistics and then give a lad who is trying to changing that approach stick for doing so.

It’s how you see him I think, just opinions but I never, ever take notice of statistics prefer to use my eye, stats don’t show you how much he doesn’t do, your eyes won’t deceive you on that score.

 

[Cameron Manning]

Absolutely spot on, If he was a young scouse lad he would be getting destroyed by our fans.
He needs to get involved more and take charge of a game, I’m worried that if he can’t do it now, he never will.
People say hes young, at 22 he should be old enough to be showing more, there are younger players in this league who have settled in by now.

He absolutely has to a lot more than he does, nothing disguises the way he goes missing throughout the game and his good points, he has some, don’t make up for what he doesn’t do.

 

[Chrismac]

He does more per game than any of our other outfield players regularly.

 

[degsy]

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Might as well take the individuals out this.

More to do with what our midfield is being asked to do., Because I'll be fudged if I know they are all over the place. Something Dyche needs to sort out.

Until that midfield is functioning it's chicken feed opinions on Onana.

 

[Furey1878]

Might as well take the individuals out this.

More to do with what our midfield is being asked to do., Because I'll be fudged if I know they are all over the place. Something Dyche needs to sort out.

Until that midfield is functioning it's chicken feed opinions on Onana.

Yeah, I think Gueye, Onana, Doucoure and Garner are all good players individually but it's hard to get a balanced 3 out of them.

I think if we had that one true sitting midfielder, the rest would fall into place but we don't.

they are all #8s in my opinion, so a flat 2 would probably be best, but then you run the risk of being overran.

 

[siddharth]

W

Not haters, realists who use their eyes instead of stats.

It’s how you see him I think, just opinions but I never, ever take notice of statistics prefer to use my eye, stats don’t show you how much he doesn’t do, your eyes won’t deceive you on that score.

I agree with the eye test being the best way to determine that. For the sake of understanding, what doesn't he do though? And are there other players who do that in our current team?

 

[Shibbywiggles]

I think he’s good and has the physicality to become great. He’s also unique and I love that outside boot slide tackle from behind he can do, it’s unreal when he pulls that off and considering how dangerous it should be it’s mad I’ve never seen him mistime it and get booked.

That being said, he’s got a long way to go before he’s any better than what we paid for him. Someone might buy him for mad money for potential the way that Gordon got sold after achieving nothing but he’s still got a lot to learn and he needs to improve his consistency throughout games and not fade in and out so much.

 

[Cameron Manning]

W

I agree with the eye test being the best way to determine that. For the sake of understanding, what doesn't he do though? And are there other players who do that in our current team?

There is not many, if any,who do less than Onana, they might not do it very well but at least they try, and although Onana is quoted on here as a great tackler sliding in to win them, he doesn’t actually win half of his tackles, he is left on the floor with his opponent streaking away with ball, his heading ability is very poor especially with the size he is, poor with his efforts on goal, but he has scored one- - - - in over forty games, makes good long passes but again not nearly enough of them, makes plenty of short passes, mostly backward, then stand still and tells the player he has passed to, who to pass it onto instead of getting away finding space and ready to receive a pass back.

He’s very good at ambling around and watching the game pass him by, no doubt he will be a great player worth £100M in the future or so I’m told by a few on here, I hope that turns out to be the case but at the moment he’s not worth the value we paid for him simply because he’s doing a lot less than he should be doing.

 

[siddharth]

There is not many, if any,who do less than Onana, they might not do it very well but at least they try, and although Onana is quoted on here as a great tackler sliding in to win them, he doesn’t actually win half of his tackles, he is left on the floor with his opponent streaking away with ball, his heading ability is very poor especially with the size he is, poor with his efforts on goal, but he has scored one- - - - in over forty games, makes good long passes but again not nearly enough of them, makes plenty of short passes, mostly backward, then stand still and tells the player he has passed to, who to pass it onto instead of getting away finding space and ready to receive a pass back.

He’s very good at ambling around and watching the game pass him by, no doubt he will be a great player worth £100M in the future or so I’m told by a few on here, I hope that turns out to be the case but at the moment he’s not worth the value we paid for him simply because he’s doing a lot less than he should be doing.

I kind of understand your frustration a little bit when you say it like that. I too hope he gets to be a 100m player when he is still playing for us, but in my opinion, I also think it is telling that he is a player who has moved up the pitch with time. He started off as a ball-winning midfielder who sometimes even deputized at centre-back. So, I am happy with his improvement hitherto, but some of the things where he is seen instructing on the passage of play are also in my opinion a good sign (considering we don't know what the player gets in terms of positional instructions from the manager). He most definitely needs to improve his shot much much more and he is able to at least hit it cleaner than last year when even his shots were like a layoff to the goalie. He doesn't win as many balls in the air in the middle of the pitch but has shown remarkable improvement in either box. He has to definitely show a lot more involvement in the game, but I don't know about that tackle comment. Maybe he doesn't commit as much as he should (?) but when he does the technique is exquisite to watch especially because he is so tall and lanky.

 

[mistuhp]

he doesn’t actually win half of his tackles, he is left on the floor with his opponent streaking away with ball

Do you have a source for this? Winning tackles and headers is one thing that can be measured fairly easily, so the statistics are pretty straightforward, and complications only come from how they are presented.

According to how the opta data are presented on fotmob and fbref, last year he made 72 tackles and the team won the ball on 43 (59.7%), and thus far this year he's made 7 and won 6 (85.7%). At Lille the year before joining, he won 31 of 48 (64.6%).
On whoscored they have attempted tackles, then it's broken down into just tackles and dribbled past. This year he's listed as having attempted 11 with 7 tackles, last year attempted 84 with 72, and at Lille it was 55 attempts with 48 tackles. Those tackle numbers square with what the other sites present.
My assumption is that the tackles number is where he won the ball, but lots of tackles a person would normally count as having been won will result in balls going out for a throw in/corner, or a loose ball picked up by the opposition.

So even if we go with the least generous method of "Did the player attempt a tackle, and did their side end up with the ball?" that combines the two above methods, this year he's at 6/11 (54.5%), last year 43/84 (51.1%), and at Lille 31/55 (56.4%). And if you go with players actually getting past him, this year it's 4/11 (36.3%), last year it was 12/84 (14.3%), and at Lille 7/55 (12.7%).

Edited to add: There's a "challenges" section on fbref, which I'm not totally clear on how the numbers differ, but it shows that he's at like 42% in the early part of this year, and was over 70% each of the last couple years.

 

[Lapeno77]

There is not many, if any,who do less than Onana, they might not do it very well but at least they try, and although Onana is quoted on here as a great tackler sliding in to win them, he doesn’t actually win half of his tackles, he is left on the floor with his opponent streaking away with ball, his heading ability is very poor especially with the size he is, poor with his efforts on goal, but he has scored one- - - - in over forty games, makes good long passes but again not nearly enough of them, makes plenty of short passes, mostly backward, then stand still and tells the player he has passed to, who to pass it onto instead of getting away finding space and ready to receive a pass back.

He’s very good at ambling around and watching the game pass him by, no doubt he will be a great player worth £100M in the future or so I’m told by a few on here, I hope that turns out to be the case but at the moment he’s not worth the value we paid for him simply because he’s doing a lot less than he should be doing.

All of this amply demonstrated on Sheff Us first goal. Ambling across then the half a**ed attempt at a tackle by dangling a leg out.

 

[Cameron Manning]

I kind of understand your frustration a little bit when you say it like that. I too hope he gets to be a 100m player when he is still playing for us, but in my opinion, I also think it is telling that he is a player who has moved up the pitch with time. He started off as a ball-winning midfielder who sometimes even deputized at centre-back. So, I am happy with his improvement hitherto, but some of the things where he is seen instructing on the passage of play are also in my opinion a good sign (considering we don't know what the player gets in terms of positional instructions from the manager). He most definitely needs to improve his shot much much more and he is able to at least hit it cleaner than last year when even his shots were like a layoff to the goalie. He doesn't win as many balls in the air in the middle of the pitch but has shown remarkable improvement in either box. He has to definitely show a lot more involvement in the game, but I don't know about that tackle comment. Maybe he doesn't commit as much as he should (?) but when he does the technique is exquisite to watch especially because he is so tall and lanky.

Yes I like your balanced reply, watch his sliding tackles, when they come off they look good as you say, but he does miss half of them, he has been booked for some them, mostly last season.

I’ll keep watching him hoping for some improvement, I don’t criticise him for the fun of it but because I truly don’t see the player that some see on here and I believe he really should be doing a lot more.

I really appreciated you reply, it made me think.

All of this amply demonstrated on Sheff Us first goal. Ambling across then the half a**ed attempt at a tackle by dangling a leg out.

As I keep saying he should be doing a lot more, I wonder if any of the coaches are sitting him down and talking him through his game pointing out his skill has to be added to with work rate.

 

[Baines' left foot]

In today’s edition of The Fans Are Thick as Fk…