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Andy Gray: Martinez Not Helping Lukaku

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Deggo said:
Cuckoo........Gray was here more than one season by the way and unlike John Bailey or Wayne Clarke Andy Gray was the catalyst to the great side,a bit more than a one season trick pony

Sometimes davek sometimes :eek:
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He's a Villa legend. Not a shadow of a doubt on that.

Everton? Nah. A bit part player in our golden 1980s. Sharp, Reid, Southall...Everton legends one and all.
 
Brennan said:
Anybody who says Martinez isn't directly responsible for Swansea being where they are today is utterly mental.
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Call me utterly mental, but I utterly disagree. As I posted before; RM did a lot for Swansea, he gained them promotion from league 1 and then left, and played attractive football in the mean time. To claim that he is directly responsible for their position now is far-fetched. You could quite as easily claim that Rodgers is as responsible because he gained promotion to the premier league . as much as I dislike Rodgers, its too easy to say he just had to pick up RMs pieces. As I said before, I don't think many consider today's Swansea as some kind of attractive passing team, and so the style in which Swansea play has changed according to the manager they have at the time, not one they had for 2 seasons years ago. Martinez certainly has a stake to claim towards the contribution ttowards the club's success over the last 8 years or so, but to say he is directly responsible is blinkered.
 
Seanjd said:
Call me utterly mental, but I utterly disagree. As I posted before; RM did a lot for Swansea, he gained them promotion from league 1 and then left, and played attractive football in the mean time. To claim that he is directly responsible for their position now is far-fetched. You could quite as easily claim that Rodgers is as responsible because he gained promotion to the premier league . as much as I dislike Rodgers, its too easy to say he just had to pick up RMs pieces. As I said before, I don't think many consider today's Swansea as some kind of attractive passing team, and so the style in which Swansea play has changed according to the manager they have at the time, not one they had for 2 seasons years ago. Martinez certainly has a stake to claim towards the contribution ttowards the club's success over the last 8 years or so, but to say he is directly responsible is blinkered.
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Yeah but Laudrup won the Carling Cup there, so really he should give the medal to Martinez for all that DNA.
 

This thread has arduously gone astray!

We could be discussing if leaving Anfield was beneficial for Everton long term or not. Or maybe why Bobby wears brown shoes? Maybe if he changes them to black our luck changes!

Annyways, Gray made a good point.
 
Seanjd said:
Call me utterly mental, but I utterly disagree. As I posted before; RM did a lot for Swansea, he gained them promotion from league 1 and then left, and played attractive football in the mean time. To claim that he is directly responsible for their position now is far-fetched. You could quite as easily claim that Rodgers is as responsible because he gained promotion to the premier league . as much as I dislike Rodgers, its too easy to say he just had to pick up RMs pieces. As I said before, I don't think many consider today's Swansea as some kind of attractive passing team, and so the style in which Swansea play has changed according to the manager they have at the time, not one they had for 2 seasons years ago. Martinez certainly has a stake to claim towards the contribution ttowards the club's success over the last 8 years or so, but to say he is directly responsible is blinkered.
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He took them from the third tier of English football to the second tier and implanted a style of play which would then lead them to the Premier League. In fact they barely missed out on the playoffs in that very first season in the second tier. If he hadn't gone to the club then there's a very high possibility that they would still be in the lower divisions. How does that not make him directly responsible for them being in the Premier League ?
 
faddy the blue said:
This thread has arduously gone astray!

We could be discussing if leaving Anfield was beneficial for Everton long term or not. Or maybe why Bobby wears brown shoes? Maybe if he changes them to black our luck changes!

Annyways, Gray made a good point.
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I'm far too thick to consider more than two options at the same time, and quite simply, I'm going colour mad with consideration now.
 
Brennan said:
He took them from the third tier of English football to the second tier and implanted a style of play which would then lead them to the Premier League. In fact they barely missed out on the playoffs in that very first season in the second tier. If he hadn't gone to the club then there's a very high possibility that they would still be in the lower divisions. How does that not make him directly responsible for them being in the Premier League ?
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Because it completely overlooks the manager that was managing them through getting promoted to the Premier League? Maybe? Just maybe???
 

Brennan said:
Using words like 'ditched' shows a bias in your argument. I would hardly describe leaving a Championship side for a Premiership side after getting them up a division as 'ditching' them, it's called trying to progress your career, after massively progressing the fortunes of your current club.

He went to Wigan because they were in the top flight and kept them up for three years, despite them spending absolutely nothing. This discussion about Martinez at Wigan was done to death two years ago and it was shown then that he had done well to keep them up. Some people make it sound like Wigan should have been a comfortable mid table team.
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And you miss the point, the response here and prior was reply to Dave's claim of RM being a successful manger.

I also enquired of Dave to comment on the content of what Gray had stated instead of going off on a tangent about Gray at EVERTON.
I do not think Dave has done that even now.
 
Brennan said:
He took them from the third tier of English football to the second tier and implanted a style of play which would then lead them to the Premier League. In fact they barely missed out on the playoffs in that very first season in the second tier. If he hadn't gone to the club then there's a very high possibility that they would still be in the lower divisions. How does that not make him directly responsible for them being in the Premier League ?
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Because Rodgers took them from the second tier to the first tier of English football, which is also a great achievement. You are totally discrediting all of the work done by any of the 3 managers who have managed Swansea after RM. Of course he did well by them, but he isn't solely responsible for it, nor did he implement a style of football which you claim has lead them to the premier league, he implemented a style of football which lead them to the Championship. That's the same as totally discrediting RMs achievements from last season and saying Moyes implemented a style of football which lead us to our highest ever points tally. I'm sure you wouldn't agree.
 
faddy the blue said:
He can wear pink or yellow for all I care. Maybe one each. As long as he can turn things around.
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If this was the Ale House, we'd be having a Phats & Small moment now.

Martinez aint strapping his boots on, he needs to explain to the boys in defence that here and there they are allowed to thump the ball forward or row Z it. There's no shame to the under pressure safe option. But we'll 'tit about at the back' and give away goals until the pragmatic option is taken. It's a shame really, I like Martinez but I our club more (same with every manager, player and owner ever really).
 
Toffeelover said:
And you miss the point, the response here and prior was reply to Dave's claim of RM being a successful manger.

I also enquired of Dave to comment on the content of what Gray had stated instead of going off on a tangent about Gray at EVERTON.
I do not think Dave has done that even now.
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Why would he, this is another thread backing Martinez to the hilt, condemning the players, suggesting staff (playing and coaching) are plotting to oust the manager, and that some of the forum are blind thickies if they do not buy into his (Davek's) every word.
Every thread, every time. But, it's a free country just about so we wipe our mouths and move on.
 
L4Everton said:
Why would he, this is another thread backing Martinez to the hilt, condemning the players, suggesting staff (playing and coaching) are plotting to oust the manager, and that some of the forum are blind thickies if they do not buy into his (Davek's) every word.
Every thread, every time. But, it's a free country just about so we wipe our mouths and move on.
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Agree L4, just move on. We have a game to watch tomorrow. Hope we get a bit of luck.
 

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