2020/21 Anthony Gordon

[TheBigIguana]

He won't learn how to play out of possession by not playing. If he can't be trusted here then get him on loan to whatever the level is where he's too good of an attacker to worry about his defending.

 

[Philw]

You really are defensive aren’t you?

Are you suggesting I should just role over and admit defeat?? Funny how everyone hates it when our players do that, but as soon as someone on the forum argues a point they throw a fit.

Oh, you again?

I could say the same...

Bit of a bee in your bonnet haven't you sunshine?

Bit condescending, 'pal'. Very Donald Trump. What a fine example of a man.

Do you understand what off the ball means?

It's basically this;

Gordon: “Where I need to improve is getting back into shape quicker and being harder to beat, instead of pressing, then waiting and not getting back into shape – being the odd one out.”

Do you understand that it is more than just that? It's initial positioning. If offensive as well as defensive. Finding space, moving and making angles and runs for people to find you with a pass. What you've said is a vague throw-away comment that anyone can make to make it look like they have a clue what they're talking about. He's talking about specifics. They are not the same.

Also seems to hate Carlo Ancelotti for some reason.

I like Carlo, I'm just not sucking him off cos of his name and reputation, but judging him on what he does here and only here.

Is @Philw Anthony Gordon’s dad??

Haha, no, but did meet some of his relatives at academy game a few years ago.

 

[Philw]

However he's not very game savvy , the term chicken with no head springs to mind , thus expending a lot of needless energy as games wear on.

How's he gonna learn that if he's not playing tho? He's not gonna learn it in training or sitting on the bench.

He’s got talent but we don’t half over hype players that have come through the youth system
We have to trust the man who sees him everyday in training and wonder why the likes of Iwobi Walcott Barnard we’re getting on the pitch before him.

I see him as an impact player last 20 mins and maybe that’s all he is for now.

Probably yes, but he's hardly getting even that.

And before the usual muppet brigade pile on with 'yeah but Carlo Perfecto sees him every day in training' etc etc, I don't really care tbh. I care about what happens on the pitch. After Richarlison our next LW option is Bernard, but he hasn't done much more than Gordon has, and has had far more time and opportunity. Sure, Gordon hasn't torn up trees, but he has looked bright, has got assists. You can't say he needs to take his chance when his chance is 15-20 minutes here and there, and the players he's competing against have played 15-20 games and more, and have barely done anything that could be considered 'taking there chance' in all that time. It is complete hypocrisy.

 

[Lanolin]

He won't learn how to play out of possession by not playing. If he can't be trusted here then get him on loan to whatever the level is where he's too good of an attacker to worry about his defending.

He won't learn then either though will he? Just ignoring the problem won't make it go away, he'd be much better served working on it in training than just going somewhere where they don't care whether he does it or not. If he does that he'll just come back 6 months older with exactly the same issue.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I could say the same...

You're the one who waded in replying to me you oddball.

Bit condescending, 'pal'. Very Donald Trump. What a fine example of a man.

Indeed.

I am condescending to people like you - who yesterday was telling me and others to learn to read, 'dim' and 'very very dumb'.

I've made you look a bit of a fool there boyo and you're now squirming by playing the victim card.

Go and get laid or something you bad, bad WUM.

 

[TheBigIguana]

He won't learn then either though will he? Just ignoring the problem won't make it go away, he'd be much better served working on it in training than just going somewhere where they don't care whether he does it or not. If he does that he'll just come back 6 months older with exactly the same issue.

You don't get the experience of having played 60 minutes and then having to sprint back to cover a fullback in training. You can't learn to keep focused and cover your assignment on a set play after putting 90 minutes of effort in during training. The nature of football makes actually playing necessary to develop because it is just different level of mental and physical strain than what is done in training.

It's not like a championship or lower manager would just let him not defend. But would a team like Luton or Derby that doesn't really score be willing to risk it a little if he's an improvement to their attack? My guess is someone in the football league would because Gordon has shown to be a pretty good player going forward. Everton can't do it because he doesn't improve us enough to make the reward worth the risk.

 

[Terrarian]

lads

 

[JLW]

If Gordon’s impact was as devastating on the pitch as it is in here he’d be boss...

 

[Lanolin]

You don't get the experience of having played 60 minutes and then having to sprint back to cover a fullback in training. You can't learn to keep focused and cover your assignment on a set play after putting 90 minutes of effort in during training. The nature of football makes actually playing necessary to develop because it is just different level of mental and physical strain than what is done in training.

It's not like a championship or lower manager would just let him not defend. But would a team like Luton or Derby that doesn't really score be willing to risk it a little if he's an improvement to their attack? My guess is someone in the football league would because Gordon has shown to be a pretty good player going forward. Everton can't do it because he doesn't improve us enough to make the reward worth the risk.

I was responding specifically to you saying send him on loan to somewhere where he 'doesn't have to worry about his defending'. I'm not saying he shouldn't go out on loan, but I am saying that going somewhere where they don't teach him the skill we need him to learn would be a little bit silly. If that isn't what you meant then fine, but I can only go off what you've actually written. As an aside you absolutely can do those things in training. Whether we're doing it with him or not I can't tell you, but it can definitely be done.

 

[JLW]

How's he gonna learn that if he's not playing tho? He's not gonna learn it in training or sitting on the bench.

Probably yes, but he's hardly getting even that.

And before the usual muppet brigade pile on with 'yeah but Carlo Perfecto sees him every day in training' etc etc, I don't really care tbh. I care about what happens on the pitch. After Richarlison our next LW option is Bernard, but he hasn't done much more than Gordon has, and has had far more time and opportunity. Sure, Gordon hasn't torn up trees, but he has looked bright, has got assists. You can't say he needs to take his chance when his chance is 15-20 minutes here and there, and the players he's competing against have played 15-20 games and more, and have barely done anything that could be considered 'taking there chance' in all that time. It is complete hypocrisy.

I get what your saying but the game is about tactical nous and positioning when you haven’t got the ball. He will only improve by playing for sure. For every successful weaving run he does in training he may lose the ball numerous times in dangerous positions . The negatives may outweigh the positives hence why he doesn’t get a lot of game time.

 

[BlueStevie35]

Are you suggesting I should just role over and admit defeat?? Funny how everyone hates it when our players do that, but as soon as someone on the forum argues a point they throw a fit.

Oh the irony, considering that’s exactly what you’re doing, multi quoting people, insulting them

 

[BigDuncTributeBand]

He won't learn how to play out of possession by not playing. If he can't be trusted here then get him on loan to whatever the level is where he's too good of an attacker to worry about his defending.

I was thinking much the same - it’s such a David Moyes approach, ooh don’t want to play that attacker because he’s not good enough at defending and might cost us a goal. FFS - he’s a forward, can we concentrate on what he’s bringing to the attack i.e. is he scoring goals, assisting, creating chances, making good decisions and judge him on that first before worrying about whether he can defend?

He’s a prospect with incredible acceleration/pace but on the chances he’s had in the first team (albeit limited) he’s not done enough in terms of impact in the opponents third of the pitch - there’s still stuff he can work on to make him a more effective forward. Can we try to improve him there first and if that isn’t going to be here then get him on loan. The other stuff like getting back into position out of possession will improve with game time.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I was responding specifically to you saying send him on loan to somewhere where he 'doesn't have to worry about his defending'. I'm not saying he shouldn't go out on loan, but I am saying that going somewhere where they don't teach him the skill we need him to learn would be a little bit silly. If that isn't what you meant then fine, but I can only go off what you've actually written. As an aside you absolutely can do those things in training. Whether we're doing it with him or not I can't tell you, but it can definitely be done.

I was unclear. I don't mean he won't defend I mean they won't be too worried if he makes mistakes because he will bring a lot up the other end. For us that isn't the case because he's not exceptional in a PL team. I think lower leagues he would be a pretty high level attacker.

And I don't think you can replicate the intensity of a match in training. Even if you are on a physical level, and that's definitely not something you can do every session, the mental focus is going to be different. Guys have to play real games against adults at some point. He's at that point, imo.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I was thinking much the same - it’s such a David Moyes approach, ooh don’t want to play that attacker because he’s not good enough at defending and might cost us a goal. FFS - he’s a forward, can we concentrate on what he’s bringing to the attack i.e. is he scoring goals, assisting, creating chances, making good decisions and judge him on that first before worrying about whether he can defend?

He’s a prospect with incredible acceleration/pace but on the chances he’s had in the first team (albeit limited) he’s not done enough in terms of impact in the opponents third of the pitch - there’s still stuff he can work on to make him a more effective forward. Can we try to improve him there first and if that isn’t going to be here then get him on loan. The other stuff like getting back into position out of possession will improve with game time.

It's not my favorite approach either but I do at least understand it. My issue of course is Bernard is absolute wank out of possession too so do we need to be robbing Gordon of playing time for that? I'd say no but there is this default toward experience with Carlo. I don't see it changing unfortunately.

 

[Lanolin]

I was unclear. I don't mean he won't defend I mean they won't be too worried if he makes mistakes because he will bring a lot up the other end. For us that isn't the case because he's not exceptional in a PL team. I think lower leagues he would be a pretty high level attacker.

And I don't think you can replicate the intensity of a match in training. Even if you are on a physical level, and that's definitely not something you can do every session, the mental focus is going to be different. Guys have to play real games against adults at some point. He's at that point, imo.

Yes he will learn from playing, but again I'm just answering the point you're making. You can learn in training what you need to do off the ball, and you can improve your fitness and understanding of what is expected of you. It's fine to say you'd rather he got experience of first team football, but it is clearly incorrect to say you can't learn those things in training, you absolutely can. It's why not all players who come into the side suffer the same problem.