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2022/23 Anthony Gordon

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60 a season or throw him in the Mersey.

A goal's a goal but do you say the same about Niasse? A fluke is also a fluke - no deflection and that is straight at the keeper, this was analysed as the game went on, camera angles and all that jazz.

He played 35 games last season, with only the first 3-4 having those 10 min stints (and 1 vs. West Ham later on, but he was knackered before I believe). There's no "2nd half", we're just collectively blurring out Rafael.

It's only a good effort because we're horribly poor and nearly got relegated. If we were within a shout of Europe - poor.

He has a full season with more stability to show his actual worth, which I hope he does.

The two points I'd make are
1) He offers a lot more other than goals. His defensive contribution is fantastic. So I wouldnt measure him just in goals.
2) He started 25 games I think. And took time to get going. Ended up getting 4 in about 15 starts.

We were awful, but that also stands in his favour mate, as he is getting less chances/opportunities than he would in a good team.

I've said before, I just worry theres an unrealistic standard for him. In more starts, Richarlison got 7 goals outside of pens and was considered a success. If he gets 8 goals, to me that would be good.
 
Gordon is a lot younger. When Maddisson was Gordon's age, he was scoring 2 goals in the mighty SPL.

So it would seem reasonable to price him at a similar point.
He’s not proven at all in the premier league but we should price him over what’s been offered for a proven 25 year old because he’s younger makes sense to me can you speak to clubs for us try and get £60m ??
 
Gordon is a lot younger. When Maddisson was Gordon's age, he was scoring 2 goals in the mighty SPL.

So it would seem reasonable to price him at a similar point.
He was there for half a season though, on loan as well.

Gordon was at Preston (right?) and did sweet f.a. aswell like lol At least Maddison was scoring against Rangers and all that.
 

I think people have an unrealistic expectation a 21 year can do.
I think his age isn't really the important thing in this sense, it's more where he's up to with his development. It's not uncommon at all for players in his sort of position to be regulars at 21. The most recent England squad had 8 players 23 and under in it, some of those players have been in the side for years and have won trophies, played in the biggest finals etc. We need to move away from the idea that expecting someone like Gordon to positively influence games at this level is completely unfair, because it's not. He's not a 17 year old who's filling in in an emergency, he's 21 and has been in and around senior football for 3 years now. Saka had to take a crucial penalty at Wembley to keep England in the Euros at 19 and we have people saying asking Gordon to keep a corner in play on a saturday afternoon in February is putting too much pressure on the lad.

I've said before that what doesn't help Gordon is this constant insistence that he will definitely get better. He might, but he might not. He's proved that he can play at this level and that is something we should all be happy about. I honestly don't know whether he's got the ability to go right to the top, sometimes he does things that are genuinely exceptional (there was a little turn on Saturday that was brilliant) and other times he just looks very ordinary. As far as i'm concerned he's in the team on merit at the moment and he should stay there. At some point that might change though, if he doesn't start to convert some of his bright moments and energy into tangible results. If he never becomes any more than a solid PL squad player who does a job for us then that's still a win, but people always saying he's going to bloom and do x, y and z can lead to a level of expectation that he may never be able to match.
 
Sake Neiler stop being nice, WE FIGHTING OR WHAT FFS?!

Agreed he's exciting as a prospect, same to me (despite probably looking like I'm a hater) - he's just SO far off being substantial, and he's not 18 anymore either. At 21 and a starter - I expect a bit more. CR7 was starting and dominating, had goals, had assists. Let's say he's half the potential player Ronaldo was - 4 goals in 50 games is not that great.

Also passing (for below post as well tbh) and crossing accuracy - don't mean in *this* game, mean in general. Either a brilliantly whipped cross or "foot like a 50p" cross, no inbetween, with 2 out of 3 being the 50p one it feels. Dom shouts at him for often when they play (which last season was about 5 times anyway), as the cross is often over or underhit.

Set pieces also suspect, but that's the Everton curse realistically, convinced it's not up to him lol or any of our players.


Again, not this game - overall so far. Played about 40 games last season like, not much to show for it other than "running at people" (and diving if you ask anyone from the general public). The man of the match (tied with Delph I believe) performance against United - .
Bad overhits, goal was an absolute fluke (which he had 1 more of I believe; from his total of 4) as the shot was going straight at the keeper...

I honestly expect him to do the same things he does today, 2 years ago. At 21/22 I'd prefer he had discipline and the basics and awareness sorted.

Again, that's just my opinion, and we're in no position to demand anything realistically, but I hope he improves a lot and actually reaches his ceiling.


Ha ha - i like you to much mate to put you in the woodchiper! lol

You have to look at the context, its really only since after Xmas, he became a "nailed on starter" in fact he's really only into the first six playing months on his first team staring career. Hes had bit and pieces before that. Its actually incredible when you look at it through that lense. I remember Ronaldo's early years at Man U and he was posting what i suspect Anthoney will post i think in a full season. It was year four or five at Utd before he really kicked on. Equally Everton last season and on Staurday played with out a conventional forward in the majority of his games, Ronaldo at 00's Utd didnt have that issue, nor to develop with the pressure and expectation that Anthony as had in six months as a starter - a relegation battle etc and who everyone looks to - hes been incredible really. Im not saying hes Ronaldo level, but the lad has a high ceiling in his development, while comparing both development trajectory is interesting.

When you talk about his passing i go back to the above, weve lacked cutting edge, hes played the vast vast majority of his games without a conventional striker, or a 10, hes been forced to hold up play waiting for the opposing flank to come across, midfield to join the play, that might look at times like hes run down a blind alley, but hes actually waiting for support and trying to retain possession. Hes done all of the above mostly playing on the right, while his natural position is on the left.
 
He’s not proven at all in the premier league but we should price him over what’s been offered for a proven 25 year old because he’s younger makes sense to me can you speak to clubs for us try and get £60m ??

Well he is comparatively proven in the PL isnt he? Compared to players in and around his age. And compared to Maddisson he is a lot further along at 21.
 

Might not go down too well but if an offer around 30m came in I would accept it. The lad is still potential but 30m in our current predicament is a no brainer for me.
If we were in a position of funding not important then I would keep him
 
I think his age isn't really the important thing in this sense, it's more where he's up to with his development. It's not uncommon at all for players in his sort of position to be regulars at 21. The most recent England squad had 8 players 23 and under in it, some of those players have been in the side for years and have won trophies, played in the biggest finals etc. We need to move away from the idea that expecting someone like Gordon to positively influence games at this level is completely unfair, because it's not. He's not a 17 year old who's filling in in an emergency, he's 21 and has been in and around senior football for 3 years now. Saka had to take a crucial penalty at Wembley to keep England in the Euros at 19 and we have people saying asking Gordon to keep a corner in play on a saturday afternoon in February is putting too much pressure on the lad.

I've said before that what doesn't help Gordon is this constant insistence that he will definitely get better. He might, but he might not. He's proved that he can play at this level and that is something we should all be happy about. I honestly don't know whether he's got the ability to go right to the top, sometimes he does things that are genuinely exceptional (there was a little turn on Saturday that was brilliant) and other times he just looks very ordinary. As far as i'm concerned he's in the team on merit at the moment and he should stay there. At some point that might change though, if he doesn't start to convert some of his bright moments and energy into tangible results. If he never becomes any more than a solid PL squad player who does a job for us then that's still a win, but people always saying he's going to bloom and do x, y and z can lead to a level of expectation that he may never be able to match.

Yes lots of fair points.

The development thing, is to some extent though, a code for how much better we think he can get. That's the game with footballers. To try and identify how much more they can improve. Or at the end, how slowly they will decline.

Theres no guarantees, and it's not Fifa or whatever (where you get a +8 between 21-26 or whatever) but as a rule it's fair to say a lot of players will improve between 21 to 25. The big gamble with Gordon, is his intrinsic ability has been overstated. By that I mean not that what he did last season was poor, but it was uncharistically good. So he could keep improving, but he had a purple patch, and may only improve enough to match that purple patch.

I also agree with your latter point, if he just proves to be a squad player, that will be fine. That's sort of Tom Davies, or Mason Holgate. The issue I have, is for a lot of people that will be some sort of disgraceful outcome, where the lad is an utter joke etc.

I sort of see the beginnings of this with some of the reactions. That unless he is scoring, or getting MOTM each week, people are disappointed. Essentially expectation far outstrips any sort of realistic likelihood for improvement.

In terms of play, he is a hard one. As you say, he does certain things very well, but other bits less so. Aside from a strong defensive contribution, he carries the ball really well, but too often for me he doesnt do so in the right areas. He doesnt put it together well enough yet. He can shoot well, but doesnt. He times his runs well, and has a good leap, but doesnt then attack the ball with any conviction.

That moment is a but of a microcosm of Gordon really. He does the hard bit, he arrives, between the posts at the perfect moment. He is between centre backs and he out jumps Koulibaly. I'm not having a go at Gray, but Gray could never do that. He does the hard bit. The easy bit, is to connect with the header, and from that position almost certainly score.

You see a lot of those imperfections with him. But then I did with Davies too, and they didnt get better, they just got worse, and slowly the positives in his game got lost. So he almost certainly had to start making the most of them, or you just tail off. You dont really remain at contradictory potential forever.
 
Ha ha - i like you to much mate to put you in the woodchiper! lol

You have to look at the context, its really only since after Xmas, he became a "nailed on starter" in fact he's really only into the first six playing months on his first team staring career. Hes had bit and pieces before that. Its actually incredible when you look at it through that lense. I remember Ronaldo's early years at Man U and he was posting what i suspect Anthoney will post i think in a full season. It was year four or five at Utd before he really kicked on. Equally Everton last season and on Staurday played with out a conventional forward in the majority of his games, Ronaldo at 00's Utd didnt have that issue, nor to develop with the pressure and expectation that Anthony as had in six months as a starter - a relegation battle etc and who everyone looks to - hes been incredible really. Im not saying hes Ronaldo level, but the lad has a high ceiling in his development, while comparing both development trajectory is interesting.

When you talk about his passing i go back to the above, weve lacked cutting edge, hes played the vast vast majority of his games without a conventional striker, or a 10, hes been forced to hold up play waiting for the opposing flank to come across, midfield to join the play, that might look at times like hes run down a blind alley, but hes actually waiting for support and trying to retain possession. Hes done all of the above mostly playing on the right, while his natural position is on the left.

Theres a big thing about that 2nd half of the season. Before that, he was a bit in and out and playing within himself.

4 goals in half a season is good. If he doubled it this season as a target, that would be a very good return. The problem is, for a lot of people that would be a failure.
 
Well he is comparatively proven in the PL isnt he? Compared to players in and around his age. And compared to Maddisson he is a lot further along at 21.
Yes but Newcastle wasn’t bidding for a 21 year old Maddison so to compare his price to what a 21 year old Gordon who’s done nothing really is a bit daft if that’s the case how about £20odd million what he went to Leicester for
 

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