Ban the Burka

[Seamus Colemole]

Tbh whilst this debate has been quite fun/infuriating, we should just agree to disagree. You dont mind the Burkah, I like most of the population, do. It's cool!

Got any proof of that. I mean real proof as opposed to just saying it to try and back your argument up.

 

[EFCNIK]

Got any proof of that. I mean real proof as opposed to just saying it to try and back your argument up.

Nope. Just a feeling based on stuff on TV, politics, mates, pretty much everyone around me. And I only know one out and out racist and before one of you jokers goes 'looooooooolllll is it you?' no it is absolutly not. All I'm saying whilst it's cool that we are multicultural and I say as I feel I have to keep defending myself, I have quite a few mates of different race, I think that the people coming in should conform to our social laws and conducts. Thats a minimal requirement!! Does it not infuriate you when you see hate preaching on our streets? When Dispatches goes into Mosques and find out that the chief 'priest' whatever, is preaching that we are infidels to THOUSANDS of Muslims in Britain? To me, the Burkah is a sign that we are changing, in the WRONG direction. That's fine for backwards middle east countries, but with the exception of Dubai, what state are those countries in? A state of oppression, of unequality. That's why the come over here FFS! But them bringing that unnessessary anti social security hindering women oppressing nonsense is out of order and shouldnt be acceptable.

It's just my belief and shouldnt be shot down for it or posted as some Nazi boy as I'm sure some of you PC mongering lunatics will have me painted. I dont agree with the Burkah and it is also my belief that most people feel the same.

 

[BlackToffee]

Why not just call anyone who disagrees with you a Racist and have done with it.

It will stop all the [Poor language removed] you spout!!!

Because Sharpy, that's too easy. Way too easy. I'd rather EFC make as long a rope for himself (figuratively speaking of course) so that he can be hoisted on his own purtard. He has no argument, he has no means of enforcing his argument even if a law was passed. His argument is based on a misplaced fear. His England is not my England. He's not a racist, he's far more dangerous than that, he's ignorant.

...and before you kick off ignorant is defined by Wikipedia as "Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. The word "ignorant" is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware. The term may be used specifically (e.g. "One can be an expert in math, and totally ignorant of history.") "

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

Because Sharpy, that's too easy. Way too easy. I'd rather EFC make as long a rope for himself (figuratively speaking of course) so that he can be hoisted on his own purtard. He has no argument, he has no means of enforcing his argument even if a law was passed. His argument is based on a misplaced fear. His England is not my England. He's not a racist, he's far more dangerous than that, he's ignorant.

...and before you kick off ignorant is defined by Wikipedia as "Ignorance is a state of being uninformed. The word "ignorant" is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware. The term may be used specifically (e.g. "One can be an expert in math, and totally ignorant of history.") "

spot the americanism in that.

 

[Matt Damon]

Bamian Valley. UNESCO World Heritage listed site in Afghanistan; showing destroyed Buddha statue. Tracy Hunter, 2005.

Destroyed by the Taliban.

Bamyan was the site of an early Buddhist monastery from which Bamyan takes its name from the Sanskrit varmayana ("coloured"). Many statues of Buddha are carved into the sides of cliffs facing Bamyan city. The two most prominent of these statues were standing Buddhas, now known as the Buddhas of Bamyan, measuring 55 and 37 meters high respectively, that were the largest examples of standing Buddha carvings in the world. They were probably erected in the 4th or 5th century A.D. They were cultural landmarks for many years and are listed among UNESCO's World Heritage Sites. In March 2001 the Taliban government decreed that the statues were idolatrous and ordered them to be demolished with anti-aircraft artillery and explosives.

No they cannot have bukhas and no they cannot build mosques in the UK.

Simple as that.

 

[Grarghsies]

Nope. Just a feeling based on stuff on TV, politics, mates, pretty much everyone around me. And I only know one out and out racist and before one of you jokers goes 'looooooooolllll is it you?' no it is absolutly not. All I'm saying whilst it's cool that we are multicultural and I say as I feel I have to keep defending myself, I have quite a few mates of different race, I think that the people coming in should conform to our social laws and conducts. Thats a minimal requirement!! Does it not infuriate you when you see hate preaching on our streets? When Dispatches goes into Mosques and find out that the chief 'priest' whatever, is preaching that we are infidels to THOUSANDS of Muslims in Britain? To me, the Burkah is a sign that we are changing, in the WRONG direction. That's fine for backwards middle east countries, but with the exception of Dubai, what state are those countries in? A state of oppression, of unequality. That's why the come over here FFS! But them bringing that unnessessary anti social security hindering women oppressing nonsense is out of order and shouldnt be acceptable.

It's just my belief and shouldnt be shot down for it or posted as some Nazi boy as I'm sure some of you PC mongering lunatics will have me painted. I dont agree with the Burkah and it is also my belief that most people feel the same.

Highlights in bold tell the whole story of your entire argument.

Here's something you english may or may not know. 30 years ago you could've sent Dispatches into a catholic school in Northern Ireland, and do you know what you would have found? You would have found priests, just like the imams in the mosques, radicalising young men against the british state, just like in mosques. How do you deal with that sort of a situation? Very simply - let them integrate into society. Do not victimise them or infringe on their rights in any way shape or form.

You say that you can't be called a racist for your argument, then how can we be called "PC mongering lunatics"? We are not being politically correct - we are defending the civil liberties that define us as a westerners. We are the last bastion of freedom in this world. Would you throw away all of our hard-won freedoms and liberties just because you see no point in certain things or because they make you uncomfortable? Do you actually believe CCTV and ID cards and their ilk keep you safe? "Life without liberty is like a body without spirit." Kahlil Gibran

Oh and you might not be racist but you're certainly ignorant. Have you ever been to the middle-east? Ever?

Put it to you this way, there are.... 3-4 countries in the whole of the Middle East that I wouldn't visit (Iran, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan). Whereas I'd love to visit the likes of Cyprus, Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, the UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain... etc. etc.

You're just a regular, ignorant man on the street who really doesn't know a thing about Islam, the Middle East or even the freedoms you are so willing to throw away.

 

[Matt Damon]

Highlights in bold tell the whole story of your entire argument.

Here's something you english may or may not know. 30 years ago you could've sent Dispatches into a catholic school in Northern Ireland, and do you know what you would have found? You would have found priests, just like the imams in the mosques, radicalising young men against the british state, just like in mosques. How do you deal with that sort of a situation? Very simply - let them integrate into society. Do not victimise them or infringe on their rights in any way shape or form.

You say that you can't be called a racist for your argument, then how can we be called "PC mongering lunatics"? We are not being politically correct - we are defending the civil liberties that define us as a westerners. We are the last bastion of freedom in this world. Would you throw away all of our hard-won freedoms and liberties just because you see no point in certain things or because they make you uncomfortable? Do you actually believe CCTV and ID cards and their ilk keep you safe? "Life without liberty is like a body without spirit." Kahlil Gibran

Oh and you might not be racist but you're certainly ignorant. Have you ever been to the middle-east? Ever?

Put it to you this way, there are.... 3-4 countries in the whole of the Middle East that I wouldn't visit (Iran, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan). Whereas I'd love to visit the likes of Cyprus, Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, the UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain... etc. etc.

You're just a regular, ignorant man on the street who really doesn't know a thing about Islam, the Middle East or even the freedoms you are so willing to throw away.

That assumes that these are reasonable people who will adopt our way of life. Fact is they won't. Many have been here 30 years and a significant proportion of 1st generation immigrants from the 70's still don't speak English!

Because they don't want to integrate. They want their own culture here. And that is why so many have never learnt English.

That includes the immans. The BBC reported about this in May.

 

[Grarghsies]

Really? They don't want to integrate? I wonder why. Ever wondered why Irish communities in Britain have only begun to split apart and fade away in the past decade? If people are persecuted individually they will cling to the what feels familiar and the group that will support them.

 

[Matt Damon]

Really? They don't want to integrate? I wonder why. Ever wondered why Irish communities in Britain have only begun to split apart and fade away in the past decade? If people are persecuted individually they will cling to the what feels familiar and the group that will support them.

Oh and as LCAB will indicate, I deal regularly with the middle east and many other places too. I know the cultures of the middle east more than most on here do.

And that above point is - they live close to mosques. that they setup here.

The whole way of life and community is setup around that. They convert other faith's religious centres into their own.

It is how they conquered northern India and south east asia if you know your history or parts of Eastern Europe. Suggest you go read about it.

Same for northern cyprus.

 

[Sharpys top lip]

Really? They don't want to integrate? I wonder why. Ever wondered why Irish communities in Britain have only begun to split apart and fade away in the past decade? If people are persecuted individually they will cling to the what feels familiar and the group that will support them.

Well then, don't live in England.....

Easy really!!!!

 

[Grarghsies]

Oh and as LCAB will indicate, I deal regularly with the middle east and many other places too. I know the cultures of the middle east more than most on here do.

And that above point is - they live close to mosques. that they setup here.

The whole way of life and community is setup around that. They convert other faith's religious centres into their own.

It is how they conquered northern India and south east asia if you know your history or parts of Eastern Europe. Suggest you go read about it.

Same for northern cyprus.

Actually have read about it actually. The life and times of the Ottoman Empire really doesn't have any bearing on this thread.

What is relevant, however, is that you must win the hearts and minds of a persecuted population with a victim. You do NOT do this by banning elements of their traditional culture. Trust an Irishman on this one. Our history is littered with examples of Catholic persecution by the British which has led to a deep-rooted resentment and hatred which for many continues to this day.

An even more modern example was the banning of divorce by the Irish government shortly after independence. Many historians believe this led to a severe degradation in relations between the Irish government and its protestant minority, and the perception of Ireland by the protestant majority in Northern Ireland.

And ignoring all the opinions on how the islamic community would perceive this ban, the fact of the matter is that a ban on the burka would be another small step into having nearly every element of your life regulated by the government. Liberty should never be given away freely. The government does not have a right to tell you what you are allowed do - you tell the government what it is to do.

 

[Grarghsies]

Well then, don't live in England.....

Easy really!!!!

You would deny someone the chance to build a better life for their children than they could ever hope to have achieved for themselves? Why? Because their funny music and clothes make you a bit uncomfortable? Don't be so ridiculous. Everyone should have the opportunity to better themselves and seek a better life.

 

[Sharpys top lip]

Actually have read about it actually. The life and times of the Ottoman Empire really doesn't have any bearing on this thread.

What is relevant, however, is that you must win the hearts and minds of a persecuted population with a victim. You do NOT do this by banning elements of their traditional culture. Trust an Irishman on this one. Our history is littered with examples of Catholic persecution by the British which has led to a deep-rooted resentment and hatred which for many continues to this day.

An even more modern example was the banning of divorce by the Irish government shortly after independence. Many historians believe this led to a severe degradation in relations between the Irish government and its protestant minority, and the perception of Ireland by the protestant majority in Northern Ireland.

And ignoring all the opinions on how the islamic community would perceive this ban, the fact of the matter is that a ban on the burka would be another small step into having nearly every element of your life regulated by the government. Liberty should never be given away freely. The government does not have a right to tell you what you are allowed do - you tell the government what it is to do.

Do you think Muslim women want to wear a burka?




Dont be daft son. they wear it because there told....

 

[Matt Damon]

Actually have read about it actually. The life and times of the Ottoman Empire really doesn't have any bearing on this thread.

What is relevant, however, is that you must win the hearts and minds of a persecuted population with a victim. You do NOT do this by banning elements of their traditional culture. Trust an Irishman on this one. Our history is littered with examples of Catholic persecution by the British which has led to a deep-rooted resentment and hatred which for many continues to this day.

An even more modern example was the banning of divorce by the Irish government shortly after independence. Many historians believe this led to a severe degradation in relations between the Irish government and its protestant minority, and the perception of Ireland by the protestant majority in Northern Ireland.

And ignoring all the opinions on how the islamic community would perceive this ban, the fact of the matter is that a ban on the burka would be another small step into having nearly every element of your life regulated by the government. Liberty should never be given away freely. The government does not have a right to tell you what you are allowed do - you tell the government what it is to do.

With all due respect, you're whole view on this is skewed by your own Irish view.

This is not the British in Ireland. And the whole nationalist/unionist - home rule, republicanism issue.

This is immigrants in Britain. Immigrants that don't want to adopt British culture - here in Britain.

Totally different subject.

So I don't know why you're lecturing us.

And I wasn't merely referring to the Ottoman empire. There are hundreds of other cases in history in India for instance where the native populations been pushed out by Islam - using numerous tactics and deliberately.

The Wahhabi's are spending about £500 billion a year trying to export Islam abroad... and have been for the past 20 years or more.

Into Africa and Asia. And now Europe (once again).

 

[Grarghsies]

Some wear it because they want to show devotion, others wear it because of social pressure yes. Some people live traditional lives and it is not for you to judge. If someone is being abused, beaten or forced to do things they don't want to do then that is a matter for the authorities. If the authorities are not being informed of problems then that is a separate issue to do with education and information. The solution is not to ban a symptom, another will just manifest itself and all you will do is temporarily solve a problem that wasn't a problem in itself - and in doing so you will be taking another step forwards in our modern day struggle for an ever larger nanny state.