Ban the Burka

[Matt Damon]

You would deny someone the chance to build a better life for their children than they could ever hope to have achieved for themselves? Why? Because their funny music and clothes make you a bit uncomfortable? Don't be so ridiculous. Everyone should have the opportunity to better themselves and seek a better life.

Charity begins at home. Sanctimonious claptrap (the above). Its the neglect of the British population through lack of inward investment in that British population, by previous policies for misguided economic and political reasons that means some think - we owe people elsewhere a life here.

When in actual fact this countries done huge things for international development. Massive things in science and technology for that too!


Maybe the Gukha's can come because they fight and die for this country and put their lives on the line for it. This I do agree with

But anyone else who are only here for monetary reasons - living from the state - should not be granted leave to stay indefinitely.


But sadly - many have been by politically-correct and misguided politicians unwilling to "rock the boat". And its ridiculous. And its not good government.

 

[Grarghsies]

With all due respect, you're whole view on this is skewed by your own Irish view.

This is not the British in Ireland. And the whole nationalist/unionist - home rule, republicanism issue.

This is immigrants in Britain. Immigrants that don't want to adopt British culture - here in Britain.

Totally different subject.

So I don't know why you're lecturing us.

And I wasn't merely referring to the Ottoman empire. There are hundreds of other cases in history in India for instance where the native populations been pushed out by Islam - using numerous tactics and deliberately.

The Wahhabi's are spending about £500 billion a year trying to export Islam abroad... and have been for the past 20 years or more.

Into Africa and Asia. And now Europe (once again).

But you're failing to see the similarities between the issues. The Irish emigrated to Britain/America and they didn't integrate for decades. They didn't speak English, they weren't Protestants etc. etc. But eventually they did assimilate and they did so through hard work and through their sons and daughters being educated in the british system.

There are also numerous cases of the Catholic Church and other Christian organisations spending billions expanding into the developing countries. There has been a major shift in focus in the Catholic Church and they are expanding aggressively into Africa and Asia also. There are tons of cases in India and Africa and Ireland too of native populations being pushed out by Anglicanism. "To hell or to Connacht" as Cromwell once said.

Manifest Destiny in the States was all about expanding the U.S to encompass all the territory it holds today to spread christianity to the native populations.

 

[Grarghsies]

Charity begins at home. Sanctimonious claptrap (the above). Its the neglect of the British population through lack of inward investment in that British population, by previous policies for misguided economic and political reasons that means some think - we owe people a life here.

Maybe the Gukha's because they fight and die for this country and put their lives on the line for it.

But anyone else who are only here for momentary reasons - living from the state - should not be granted leave to stay indefinitely.


But sadly - many have been by politically-correct and misguided politicians unwilling to "rock the boat". And its ridiculous. And its not good government.

Of course it is not good government to let thousands upon thousands of people into a country undocumented, uneducated and untaxed. That's just stupid.

People who go to Britain and other European countries do not want to scrounge from the state. They want to work. They want to earn a living for themselves and build a life for their families.

By all means deport those and do not let those in who can not or will not work. But do not start persecuting immigrants just because they come from a different culture to your own.

 

[Matt Damon]

But you're failing to see the similarities between the issues. The Irish emigrated to Britain/America and they didn't integrate for decades. They didn't speak English, they weren't Protestants etc. etc. But eventually they did assimilate and they did so through hard work and through their sons and daughters being educated in the british system.

There are also numerous cases of the Catholic Church and other Christian organisations spending billions expanding into the developing countries. There has been a major shift in focus in the Catholic Church and they are expanding aggressively into Africa and Asia also. There are tons of cases in India and Africa and Ireland too of native populations being pushed out by Anglicanism. "To hell or to Connacht" as Cromwell once said.

Manifest Destiny in the States was all about expanding the U.S to encompass all the territory it holds today to spread christianity to the native populations.

You're making sweeping statements again about Manifest Destiny.

Its obvious your whole thinking is totally clouded by the British/Irish previous history.

Its totally out of touch to what is happening in Britain today. And the fact is the Irish culture is nothing like Islamic culture. Nothing like it.

The fact is the Irish didn't want the British in Ireland.

So now you're denying the British the choice of having immigrants into Britain.

I can't see your logic at all in anything you say.

It's like being told, do as we say not as we do.

 

[Matt Damon]

Of course it is not good government to let thousands upon thousands of people into a country undocumented, uneducated and untaxed. That's just stupid.

People who go to Britain and other European countries do not want to scrounge from the state. They want to work. They want to earn a living for themselves and build a life for their families.

By all means deport those and do not let those in who can not or will not work. But do not start persecuting immigrants just because they come from a different culture to your own.

Yes taking money out of the UK economy and sending it back home. Thats the previous economic model of the past ten years.

If Britain's to get rid of the £5.2 trillion debt - that deficit needs reversing.


No ones persecuting anyone. Denying the right to cover the face is not persecution. Its a choice. Keep the face open. Or go elsewhere.

Thats not persecution.

 

[Grarghsies]

You're making sweeping statements again about Manifest Destiny.

Its obvious your whole thinking is totally clouded by the British/Irish previous history.

Its totally out of touch to what is happening in Britain today. And the fact is the Irish culture is nothing like Islamic culture. Nothing like it.

The fact is the Irish didn't want the British in Ireland.

So now you're denying the British the choice of having immigrants into Britain.

I can't see your logic at all in anything you say.

It's like being told, do as we say not as we do.

My thinking is not clouded. I am simply using it as an example with is both recent and relevant.

Where am I denying the British the choice of having immigrants to Britain? Every European nation is required to give asylum to those who are in serious risk of persecution and torture in their home country.

It is certainly up to the British government to say who else they allow into the country from outside the EU. But every country benefits from having immigrants. They provide cheap labour, they work hard and they are loyal.

Of course if the system has allowed failed asylum seekers to slip into the country and stay there untaxed then that is a matter for the authorities. But I fail to see how this has any bearing on how one deals with the Islamic community in Britain? They must be dealt with in a fair and measured way that as should be accorded to British citizens, subjects and residents.

Also the fact of the matter is that allowing the government to ban a specific piece of clothing is an incredibly dangerous precedent that should never be allowed to be set.

 

[Grarghsies]

Yes taking money out of the UK economy and sending it back home. Thats the previous economic model of the past ten years.

If Britain's to get rid of the £5.2 trillion debt - that deficit needs reversing.


No ones persecuting anyone. Denying the right to cover the face is not persecution. Its a choice. Keep the face open. Or go elsewhere.

Thats not persecution.

That's ridiculous. Germans save their money when they earn it, thus effectively taking it out of the economy, should everyone stop hiring germans?

Polish workers will send money home too. And they are EU citizens who are perfectly entitled to do so. How will you stop them?

 

[Matt Damon]

That's ridiculous. Germans save their money when they earn it, thus effectively taking it out of the economy, should everyone stop hiring germans?

Polish workers will send money home too. And they are EU citizens who are perfectly entitled to do so. How will you stop them?

Germany is the second biggest export economy to China

In 2007
# 1 Germany: $1,354,000,000,000.00 2007
# 3 China: $1,220,000,000,000.00 2007
# 4 United States: $1,148,000,000,000.00 2007

Its not that they save, they sell far more abroad than anyone else.


And last time I looked, unlike most of our European neighbours we're an island. And the majority of immigrants are coming through other European countries that they can seek asylum in.

They're only coming here due to lax welfare laws.

 

[Grarghsies]

Germany is the second biggest export economy to China

In 2007
# 1 Germany: $1,354,000,000,000.00 2007
# 3 China: $1,220,000,000,000.00 2007
# 4 United States: $1,148,000,000,000.00 2007

Its not that they save, they sell far more abroad than anyone else.


And last time I looked, unlike most of our European neighbours we're an island. And the majority of immigrants are coming through other European countries that they can seek asylum in.

They're only coming here due to lax welfare laws.

Britain is actually an island. I'm sure you'd love to be an Ireland but that's another debate lol.

Yes Germany is a massive exporter. But German citizens save and save and save. The amount of cash they take out of their own economy is extraordinary. Is that a problem? Apparently you thought it was because you don't like immigrants saving money or supporting their families back home which has the same result. (Okay the German money helps increase the capital available to German banks but that's of limited benefit to the economy, certainly much less of a benefit than them spending said money in a shop)

 

[Matt Damon]

Britain is actually an island. I'm sure you'd love to be an Ireland but that's another debate lol.

Yes Germany is a massive exporter. But German citizens save and save and save. The amount of cash they take out of their own economy is extraordinary. Is that a problem? Apparently you thought it was because you don't like immigrants saving money or supporting their families back home which has the same result. (Okay the German money helps increase the capital available to German banks but that's of limited benefit to the economy, certainly much less of a benefit than them spending said money in a shop)

saving money with banks is not the same as transfering the money back to Poland or elsewhere (usually Pakistan here in the UK). Western Union.

For one thing, saving with a bank, the money is usually invested or in these other countries like Poland etc (via investment banking arms) - for net profit - which pays the interest the saver gets back - and is re-spent within the UK economy. Furthering economic growth, more jobs etc.



Transfering money back to poland or pakistan, usually after conversion to US$ or Euros - is basically just a drain on Britain's economy... because we don't get it back through trade like exported goods the Germans (or the actual savers the Chinese) do.


Its why we need a new British economic model with more exports to balance the economy to do the above.

And why we simply do not need more immigrants either to do it.

 

[Grarghsies]

saving money with banks is not the same as transfering the money back to Poland or elsewhere (usually Pakistan here in the UK). Western Union.

For one thing, saving with a bank, the money is usually invested or in these other countries like Poland etc (via investment banking arms) - for net profit - which pays the interest the saver gets back - and is re-spent within the UK economy. Furthering economic growth, more jobs etc.



Transfering money back to poland or pakistan, usually after conversion to US$ or Euros - is basically just a drain on Britain's economy... because we don't get it back through trade like exported goods the Germans (or the actual savers the Chinese) do.

Whatever effect it has on the economy has no bearing on the fact that those people earned that money fairly through hard work and labour and are entitled to do whatever they like with it.

If britain wants to balance the budget or even make a surplus to pay off its debts then it has to do a whole lot more than get a couple of 100 quid a year off a few thousand immigrants.

Again this has no bearing on the fact that those immigrants are in Britain legally (if some aren't then that's a separate issue) and are as free as any other british citizen, subject and resident to do whatever they like within the realms of the law and are as equally entitled as any other ethnic group in the United Kingdom (Be they Gaels, Ulster-Scots, Welsh, Scots, Cornish, Gypsy, Travellers etc. etc.) not to have their culture and tradition directly targeted in law.

 

[Matt Damon]

Whatever effect it has on the economy has no bearing on the fact that those people earned that money fairly through hard work and labour and are entitled to do whatever they like with it.

If britain wants to balance the budget or even make a surplus to pay off its debts then it has to do a whole lot more than get a couple of 100 quid a year off a few thousand immigrants.

Again this has no bearing on the fact that those immigrants are in Britain legally (if some aren't then that's a separate issue) and are as free as any other british citizen, subject and resident to do whatever they like within the realms of the law and are as equally entitled as any other ethnic group in the United Kingdom (Be they Gaels, Ulster-Scots, Welsh, Scots, Cornish, Gypsy, Travellers etc. etc.) not to have their culture and tradition directly targeted in law.

Having both Scot and Welsh family and being English I'd say I'm uniquely placed to say - no ethnic group you list is discriminated against EXCEPT the English. Who are hugely discriminated against and who are directly targeted in law.

And another thing, having conducted business with many groups in the middle east... you try telling a government in the middle east they cannot control their economic practices - Qatar for instance will not under ANY circumstances give nationality to foreigners. Qatar does NOT allow dual citizenship. Neither will many other ME countries. Let them in yes. But give them nationality and passports ?? You kiddin????! No chance.


thats what the UK government is there for not just social but economic stability also. And what they haven't done, by adopting your viewpoint my Irish friend.

 

[chicoazul]

Boss debating lids. Carry on.

 

[best little spaniard]

Can't we let people wear whatever they want??

If they misbehave, they can be punished, but I can't see how wearing something constitutes this.

And I am aware of what the Burka symbolises, but they do have the choice. They could quite easy go to the police if they felt they were being abused by their husbands.

 

[bluebloodinmyveins]

Cant we all just stick on a Barry White record and hug?