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2018/19 Bernard

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Efcjake said:
Bernard is twice the player of the likes of Onyekuru or Vlasic.

You're talking out your arse. Looking good against Turks and Russians is a completely different level of competition to the prem.
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Onyekuru was better against the Turks than Bernard was against the Ukrainians. Are those levels close enough?
 
TheBigIguana said:
Onyekuru was better against the Turks than Bernard was against the Ukrainians. Are those levels close enough?
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Onyekuru hasn't played in the prem. I couldn't care less what Bernard did in Ukraine. I care about what they can do for us. Onyekuru can't get a work permit so the jury is out on him but there's no comparison between Vlasic and Bernard in terms of impacting the game positively for Everton.
 
TheBigIguana said:
I'm so sorry. And to respond to that post about how he's getting better he didn't have an assist after new year. His performances didn't get better in any tangible way as the year went along.
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You clearly just go off stats and don’t recognise what a good performance is. Keep going though.
 
Efcjake said:
Onyekuru hasn't played in the prem. I couldn't care less what Bernard did in Ukraine. I care about what they can do for us. Onyekuru can't get a work permit so the jury is out on him but there's no comparison between Vlasic and Bernard in terms of impacting the game positively for Everton.
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If Onyekuru does get a work permit, which is unlikely as Nigeria will have to beat Egypt at home, then why shouldn't he get a shot next year? If we signed a 21 year old who had just scored double digit goals in Turkey instead of him being a returning loan we would be rightly excited by it. Onyekuru isn't better because he hasn't played here yet is a weird way to look at it.
 

buskwhi2 said:
You clearly just go off stats and don’t recognise what a good performance is. Keep going though.
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No I recognize that the team playing better can raise the perception of the performance of individuals when they haven't improved. Bernard was Bernard all season. The improvements that drove our results were players like Gylfi, Richarlison and the backline stepping up.
 
TheBigIguana said:
If Onyekuru does get a work permit, which is unlikely as Nigeria will have to beat Egypt at home, then why shouldn't he get a shot next year? If we signed a 21 year old who had just scored double digit goals in Turkey instead of him being a returning loan we would be rightly excited by it. Onyekuru isn't better because he hasn't played here yet is a weird way to look at it.
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Sure he can have a shot if he gets a work permit and Silva thinks he's good enough. Vlasic didn't meet the last requirement and wanted to go so he was loaned.

I for one would not be excited about signing a lad scoring double figures in Turkey. We can't pay anyone to take the last player we signed who hit double figures in Turkey.
 
TheBigIguana said:
No I recognize that the team playing better can raise the perception of the performance of individuals when they haven't improved. Bernard was Bernard all season. The improvements that drove our results were players like Gylfi, Richarlison and the backline stepping up.
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Do you not think Bernard is part of the reason Gylfi had a better year this year?
 
Efcjake said:
Sure he can have a shot if he gets a work permit and Silva thinks he's good enough. Vlasic didn't meet the last requirement and wanted to go so he was loaned.

I for one would not be excited about signing a lad scoring double figures in Turkey. We can't pay anyone to take the last player we signed who hit double figures in Turkey.
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Tosun vs Onyekuru is very different circumstances. I hope you are capable of seeing that.
 
Efcjake said:
Do you not think Bernard is part of the reason Gylfi had a better year this year?
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No I think Gylfi playing central all season was why he had a better year this year. He was about the same level the year before when he actually played his natural position.
 

TheBigIguana said:
No I recognize that the team playing better can raise the perception of the performance of individuals when they haven't improved. Bernard was Bernard all season. The improvements that drove our results were players like Gylfi, Richarlison and the backline stepping up.
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Here’s an article I’m sure you’ll enjoy. It’s full of stats for you

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Everton's unheralded creative force - and what he's still missing

Marco Silva has a player he can rely on
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk www.liverpoolecho.co.uk
 
TheBigIguana said:
If Onyekuru does get a work permit, which is unlikely as Nigeria will have to beat Egypt at home, then why shouldn't he get a shot next year? If we signed a 21 year old who had just scored double digit goals in Turkey instead of him being a returning loan we would be rightly excited by it. Onyekuru isn't better because he hasn't played here yet is a weird way to look at it.
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I agree with what you are saying about Onyekuru, but I think simply rating Bernard performances on the basis of goals or assists is a bit narrow minded? He pulls defenders all over the shop and makes room for the other guys to score. If you based your opinion of Cesc Fabregas solely on goals / assists he doesn’t look that good a player? In the prem he was something like one goal in seven and one assist in three or four (something like that anyway) but he was an integral part of the Arsenal and Chelsea teams? I get that you want him to contribute more in terms of goals / assists, we all do, but I genuinely think his contribution is greater than that.
 
buskwhi2 said:
Here’s an article I’m sure you’ll enjoy. It’s full of stats for you

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Everton's unheralded creative force - and what he's still missing

Marco Silva has a player he can rely on
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk www.liverpoolecho.co.uk
Click to expand...
The problem here is a lot of these compare to the rest of the club and we basically don't have any other creators except Gylfi and Digne. So of course he's close to the top. Being behind Digne in creative categories is a bad thing regardless of if he isn't behind anyone else. When you compare stats vs other players in the league he falls short.

Plus stats like Key passes don't take into account that laying a ball off for a 30 yard strike is a key pass the same as squaring one for a tap in is. And what I've looked at shows more of the former and less of the latter from him. My biggest problem is and remains that he gets less and less effective the closer to goal he gets.
 

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